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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Sound credits under visual effects credits |
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| Author |
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| Registered: December 16, 2007 |  Posts: 926 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting TheMovieman:
Quote:
IDKThese just say Recordist. I'm not sure if they should be included...
They most certainly should not be included, no. I agree with T!M. Kline and O'O'Connell are (already) credited as Sound Re-Recording Mixers. Making this or that of a Recordist is just interpretation and also against the rules which doesn't mention Recordists (only Recorded by as a credited in pre-1940 movies). |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting TheMovieman:
Quote:
IDKThese just say Recordist. I'm not sure if they should be included...
They most certainly should not be included, no. Why? Because they say only recordist? If this is the case, then there are a lot of profiles that need to be edited, so that "recordist" only entries can be eliminated. Or is it because they fall into an effects house? Should only effects credits be listed below an effects house. I don't see this in the rules. If this is the case, then we should eliminate all credits under the effects houses and not have them at all. Charlie |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 8,732 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Why?
Because they say only recordist? If this is the case, then there are a lot of profiles that need to be edited, so that "recordist" only entries can be eliminated. Indeed, and yes, some profiles do need to have the "recordists" removed. It's not something we track in DVD Profiler. This film, for example, has all the sound crew we're after. Production sound mixing, sound editing, and re-recording mixers - all already catered for. Also see railroaded's comment. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
Why?
Because they say only recordist? If this is the case, then there are a lot of profiles that need to be edited, so that "recordist" only entries can be eliminated.
Indeed, and yes, some profiles do need to have the "recordists" removed. It's not something we track in DVD Profiler. This film, for example, has all the sound crew we're after. Production sound mixing, sound editing, and re-recording mixers - all already catered for. Also see railroaded's comment. What surprises me, is you "re-audited" this title in November, and apparently it was OK then. I take it, that you have reevaluated that position? If so, that is OK, I just want to make sure that it doesn't come around again. |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,732 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
I take it, that you have reevaluated that position? My position on this hasn't changed, no. It's just that this is such a difficult thing to explain, that I sometimes don't have the energy for it. So while I'd never add these myself and strip them from my local database, I occassionally will leave them when they're already listed and when I'm contributing other corrections/additions. |
| | Registered: June 12, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,665 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
Why?
Or is it because they fall into an effects house? Should only effects credits be listed below an effects house. I don't see this in the rules. If this is the case, then we should eliminate all credits under the effects houses and not have them at all. I view the effects houses as unit crews and don't use them except for FX credits because that is the only place many of them exist. I never use them for other credit types because that would imply they worked the entire film which the on screen credit doesn't support. | | | | Bad movie? You're soaking in it! |
| | Registered: June 22, 2007 | | Posts: 89 |
| | Posted: | | | |  Sorry, T!M, you are of course right. Must have been blind this morning when I fell for the IMDB data ninehours mentioned. It is right that the two gentlemen belong to the sound stuff. But with the same doubtlessness they both do not belong to those people we want to submit as DVD Profiler permitted sound crew. Because they are just technicians (like the projectionist mentioned just with them). It is proved by railroaded who mentioned, that there is already the whole "real" well-known sound crew listed in another part of the credits. It is such a chaos meanwhile with all these sound credits, that even I, who works in this business, supported this misleading link. Sorry for uttering more confusion than necessary. So often I said before that the recordists are not belonging to the creative sound stuff. I should trust my own words better. Next time I'll try to think first and then write... And yes, there are a lot of wrong profiles since Sound Recordists are part of the permitted input options. But that's because the English Sound Recordist is equal to the American Production Sound Mixer, while the American Sound Recordist is just a helpful technician in the mixing studio. And that means that we have to regard the CoO and the whole credits to find out which Recordist is meant. | | | | Last edited: by schaumi |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Indeed, and yes, some profiles do need to have the "recordists" removed. It's not something we track in DVD Profiler. This film, for example, has all the sound crew we're after. Production sound mixing, sound editing, and re-recording mixers - all already catered for. Also see railroaded's comment. Who says we don't track these in Profiler? I have done films where this is the only sound credit. Are you really suggesting that they should be removed?  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting schaumi: Quote:
And yes, there are a lot of wrong profiles since Sound Recordists are part of the permitted input options. But that's because the English Sound Recordist is equal to the American Production Sound Mixer, while the American Sound Recordist is just a helpful technician in the mixing studio. And that means that we have to regard the CoO and the whole credits to find out which Recordist is meant. I am sorry, but that is an unreasonable stance to take. The average contributor...heck, most contributors...are not going to do that. You have to take off your 'industry hat' and look at this from the point of view of the average user. The average user is not going to research the actual job function or CoO, nor should they have to, to see if it should be entered. They are going to enter the credit that matches what is in the crew chart. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I completely agree with the Martian here. We need to just go by the crew chart in the rules. I for one am new to working with the crew... and it is confusing enough. If I have to go beyond that crew chart I will just go back to not doing crew data at all. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: June 22, 2007 | | Posts: 89 |
| | Posted: | | | | @TheMadMartian and @Addicted2DVD
Then, if You are not willing to go further to gain proper data, or if You are not able to spent time for research, simply leave it out if not sure. No one forces You to submit data You are not sure about. Better no data than wrong data. And if someone has submitted false data, and You know better, change it. And that's, after all, one good reason for this forum here: To get access to proper background information.
In case of the sound crew credits the Profiler rules contain some - long and well known - mistakes or let's say: insufficiencies. We all know that. We discussed it often. As long as a Sound Recordist is not proper defined (and he isn't), there is the possibility of submitting the wrong guy. After all: As long as sound effects editors or dialogue editors do not count as sound editors (which is really a staircase wit), as long as there is a quarrel about dubbing mixers who are not accepted as re-recording mixers, a simple technician should not be entered at all. Otherwise You have to submit the guy who takes care of the computers in the cutting room, or the projectionist or the focus puller etc. etc. | | | | Last edited: by schaumi |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | As long as the credit is in the film as it is in the crew chart then who is to say it is the wrong data... that it is not what Invelos is looking for? You say... Quote:
Otherwise You have to submit the guy who takes care of the computers in the cutting room, or the projectionist or the focus puller etc. etc. Not if they are not credited with a role that is allowed per the crew chart in the rules. And if they are credited with one of the roles that is in the crew chart then they should be included. I for one never once seen Invelos (as in Ken or Gerri) say that the wanted to exclude anyone that is credited with a role that is acceptable in the chart. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting schaumi: Quote:
@TheMadMartian and @Addicted2DVD
Then, if You are not willing to go further to gain proper data, or if You are not able to spent time for research, simply leave it out if not sure. No one forces You to submit data You are not sure about. Better no data than wrong data. And if someone has submitted false data, and You know better, change it. And that's, after all, one good reason for this forum here: To get access to proper background information. I guess you aren't willing to take off your 'industry hat' and look at this from the point of view of the average user. What a shame. Oh, and let's be clear here, every piece of data I submit is proper data. How can I say that? Because I adhere to the standard I am supposed to adhere to...the crew chart in the rules. If you would prefer that we adhere to your standards, get Ken to change the rules.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting schaumi: Quote:
Sorry, T!M, you are of course right. Must have been blind this morning when I fell for the IMDB data ninehours mentioned. It is right that the two gentlemen belong to the sound stuff. But with the same doubtlessness they both do not belong to those people we want to submit as DVD Profiler permitted sound crew. Because they are just technicians (like the projectionist mentioned just with them). It is proved by railroaded who mentioned, that there is already the whole "real" well-known sound crew listed in another part of the credits.
It is such a chaos meanwhile with all these sound credits, that even I, who works in this business, supported this misleading link. Sorry for uttering more confusion than necessary. So often I said before that the recordists are not belonging to the creative sound stuff. I should trust my own words better. Next time I'll try to think first and then write...
And yes, there are a lot of wrong profiles since Sound Recordists are part of the permitted input options. But that's because the English Sound Recordist is equal to the American Production Sound Mixer, while the American Sound Recordist is just a helpful technician in the mixing studio. And that means that we have to regard the CoO and the whole credits to find out which Recordist is meant. Who is "we"? Apparently, there are a couple of people that are deciding about "We". WE as a collective do not want the same thing as you. There are people that may want all the sound credits put in. There may be a person that wants the "drivers". So, I ask again, who is "WE"? I personally think that we should track all the crew that is presented in the opening credits in solo or small groups, or in the beginning of the closing credits. (Like Casting by), these are crew roles that the producer has decided should be prioritzed. I would like to have a way (contributed) to assign top billed actors. This is not "we". There may be other people that may agree with me, but I never address it as "WE" Charlie |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting schaumi:
Quote:
@TheMadMartian and @Addicted2DVD
Then, if You are not willing to go further to gain proper data, or if You are not able to spent time for research, simply leave it out if not sure. No one forces You to submit data You are not sure about. Better no data than wrong data. And if someone has submitted false data, and You know better, change it. And that's, after all, one good reason for this forum here: To get access to proper background information.
I guess you aren't willing to take off your 'industry hat' and look at this from the point of view of the average user. What a shame. Oh, and let's be clear here, every piece of data I submit is proper data. How can I say that? Because I adhere to the standard I am supposed to adhere to...the crew chart in the rules. If you would prefer that we adhere to your standards, get Ken to change the rules. Well said. This is the 3rd time somebody has suggested that I should not use the program I paid for the way the rules are written. It is beyond me. Did he pay more than me? |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,732 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Indeed, and yes, some profiles do need to have the "recordists" removed. It's not something we track in DVD Profiler. This film, for example, has all the sound crew we're after. Production sound mixing, sound editing, and re-recording mixers - all already catered for. Also see railroaded's comment.
Who says we don't track these in Profiler? I have done films where this is the only sound credit. Are you really suggesting that they should be removed? No, of course not: that's one of the rare ocassions that it SHOULD be entered. For this particular case, it's also important to keep in mind that "recordist" isn't listed as a valid role in the crew credits table. "Sound recordist" is, but that really is an entirely different credit. So it's not just that these "recordists" aren't the people we're after, but they're simply not allowed to be entered per the rules. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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