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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next
What determines your vote? The data or the notes?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMallrat
Registered: December 13, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
Netherlands Posts: 334
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If you know the data is correct then imo it seems obvious you vote yes. You can use all the superlatives and bold letters you like : correct data = correct data. Saying that correct data should not be accepted because it not's documented is what defies logic to me. The poll says that you KNOW it's correct data. That's what we want isn't it? Correct data?

Besides that, even if the data is documented, let's face facts here. It's not like everybody then goes out and checks out the source, now is it? And yes, I know, documentation gives you the choice of verifying the data while the lack of documentation makes you do a bit extra (like PM to contributor), and yes the contributor could (and should) have prevented this. Nonetheless, for some reason, apparantly he didn't. I don't seek all kinds of dark motives for that and subsequently I don't see any reason to "punish" or lecture the contributor about it. Sure, send a friendly PM, but that's it.
The fact remains that it's correct data and I see no reason to treat it otherwise.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorArdos
Registered: July 31, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 2,506
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The way I (& possibly others) see it, the notes themselves make up the contribution, so if their data is "bad" then you should vote no accordingly.

To back that up -

The Contribution Notes are part of the Contribution Rules. So following that -

Quote:
If a user is following the Contribution Rules


&

Quote:
When you contribute a changed profile, you are required to include Contribution Notes. Use the space to enter full explanations for all changes and/or additions that you make. Make special reference to any changes where:

    * You have verified there is a discrepancy between the box and the actual content of the DVD - include your verification method.
    * You are making a subtle change that may be hard to spot - for example spelling correction to the overview.
    * You are removing incorrect information.

Contribution Notes provide an explanation of your changes to other DVD Profiler users and Invelos for voting and deciding whether to accept your contribution, so make your notes useful and descriptive.


By not providing the info set out in the Contribution Notes section the contribution isn't following the Contribution Rules so therefore a "No" vote is perfectly acceptable.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,201
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Needless to say, I agree with Forget and posted something very similar in the other thread.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMallrat
Registered: December 13, 2008
Reputation: High Rating
Netherlands Posts: 334
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Hi Skip, glad you clarified your position with the 6 thumbs-up! I wasn't sure about your position on this.

Northbloke : 7 for you!            

Does that mean I've won? Just kidding!  

I honestly don't think either side is going to convince the other, but judging by the results of the poll so far the vast majority seem to value the data more than a literal interpretation of the rules. Be interesting to see what Ken thinks about that. Ken?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributormdnitoil
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,777
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Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
Midnit:

But without correct notes, 6 months from now what does Changed aspect ratio from 2.35 to 2.40 tell anyone....it tell them NOTHING, It only says that a change was made not the basis for the change. What is some new user to make of it, or those of us that because of our large collections, may not get around to a given update for some time. How hard is it to type two extra words...per Cover.<shrugs>

Skip

Okay, let me put this differently.  More often than not, my vote on a given profile actually has very little to do with what's in the notes.  I rarely ever read them.

I have voted "no" to any number of submissions that have incorrect data.  Camera operators as cinematographers immediately comes to mind.  These submissions all had notes, but I knew the data was wrong.  In many instances, the contents of the notes do nothing to clue me in to the fact that the data is wrong.  I just happen to be a movie freak and retain this useless trivia.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,201
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Quoting mdnitoil:
Quote:
Okay, let me put this differently.  More often than not, my vote on a given profile actually has very little to do with what's in the notes.  I rarely ever read them.

I have voted "no" to any number of submissions that have incorrect data.  Camera operators as cinematographers immediately comes to mind.  These submissions all had notes, but I knew the data was wrong.  In many instances, the contents of the notes do nothing to clue me in to the fact that the data is wrong.  I just happen to be a movie freak and retain this useless trivia.

I am the complete opposite.  I read the notes first then, if the notes tell me what was done and includes sources, I look at the data.  If the notes do nothing but tell me what was done, I vote 'no' and move on to the next one.  So, for me, the scenario in the OP usually won't ever come up.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting mdnitoil:
Quote:
Okay, let me put this differently.  More often than not, my vote on a given profile actually has very little to do with what's in the notes.  I rarely ever read them.

I have voted "no" to any number of submissions that have incorrect data.  Camera operators as cinematographers immediately comes to mind.  These submissions all had notes, but I knew the data was wrong.  In many instances, the contents of the notes do nothing to clue me in to the fact that the data is wrong.  I just happen to be a movie freak and retain this useless trivia.

I am the complete opposite.  I read the notes first then, if the notes tell me what was done and includes sources, I look at the data.  If the notes do nothing but tell me what was done, I vote 'no' and move on to the next one.  So, for me, the scenario in the OP usually won't ever come up.

Dittoes on al counts, Uncus.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDragon 6
Registered: 2/18/2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Posts: 281
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It all depends on the data. If the contribution was just changing the aspect ratio that I could verify myself by grabing the DVD off the shelf then I would vote YES but if they where adding cast and crew I would need them to state where the data came from and if it was not stated in the notes I would vote NO.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
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If the contribution changes data that I do not know if it is right or wrong and the contribution notes do not provide either documentation or a verification method, then I vote no.

If I know the data is correct (by checking it myself), or another voter has verified that the data is correct with a source, then I vote yes.

Getting the correct data in the profile, after all, should be our goal.

This argument about  "6 months from now, we won't be able to tell why something was done" just doesn't hold water with me.  When I audit a profile, I never look at old contribution notes.  If I am going to change anything, I fully verify it myself.  I never rely on anyone else's word.
Hal
 Last edited: by hal9g
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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You might not look at the Notes, Hal. But some of us myself included DO, they are crucial in my assessment of an update and deciding whether to accept said update or not, insufficiennt verification simply wastes my time and dealing with a file totalling almost 7800 Profiles including wishlist, wasting my time is not something that I enjoy. You have very close to the same number I have, hal, except that you aren't sem-retired and your time I would think carries an even higher premium to you. I want correct, verified data, no ouija boards, dartboards, assumptions or guesses allowed.

In short, you want a yes vote me, verify your data and tell me how you did it, don't make me guess and don't waste my time. The Rule spell it all out very clearly contrary to the way some read it, they very clearly demand verification plain and simple no ifs, no ands, no buts and they begin hammering that home from the very FIRST page, carried right on through the Comment on your Contribution Notes page.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,201
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
This argument about  "6 months from now, we won't be able to tell why something was done" just doesn't hold water with me.  When I audit a profile, I never look at old contribution notes.  If I am going to change anything, I fully verify it myself.  I never rely on anyone else's word.

When I audit a title, and my data doesn't match what is in the current profile, the first thing I do is look at the old contribution notes.  I do this to see if the difference was intended or a mistake.  If it was intended, then the notes will tell me why my data is different.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbigdaddyhorse
Registered: June 21, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,621
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I can see both sides of this, but I'm with the if I know for sure the data is right , then I'll vote yes and mention that I know for a fact in the opitional reason space.
If there's the slightest doubt about anything in my mind, then I'll look it up (if possible). If that doesn't show me something convincing, I'll vote no. If it does, I'd probably vote yes, but it hasn't ever happened so I can't say for sure. The orignal topic has happened and I voted yes.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
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Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
You might not look at the Notes, Hal. But some of us myself included DO, they are crucial in my assessment of an update and deciding whether to accept said update or not


If you will take the time to read what I said, I was talking about reviewing notes on contributions that were submitted 6 months ago.  Reading the notes on a current contribution to determine how to vote seems to be a process that would not require explanation or debate.

Quote:
I want correct, verified data, no ouija boards, dartboards, assumptions or guesses allowed.


I believe that I said I only vote yes on data that is correct.

Quote:
In short, you want a yes vote me, verify your data and tell me how you did it, don't make me guess and don't waste my time. The Rule spell it all out very clearly contrary to the way some read it, they very clearly demand verification plain and simple no ifs, no ands, no buts and they begin hammering that home from the very FIRST page, carried right on through the Comment on your Contribution Notes page.


That's your prerogative.

It's also my prerogative to vote yes when the data is correct even if the contribution notes do not meet your standards.  Like I said, to me, the data is more important than copious substantiating notes.

It seems a tad unseemly to call out voters in this forum for voting yes to correct data.
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 6,635
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
When I audit a title, and my data doesn't match what is in the current profile, the first thing I do is look at the old contribution notes.  I do this to see if the difference was intended or a mistake.  If it was intended, then the notes will tell me why my data is different.


When I audit a title, and my data doesn't match what is in the current profile, I double-check my data, insure I have sufficient supporting documentation and submit it.  If I cannot find appropriate support for my data, I don't submit it.  I don't really care if the original contribution was intended or not.  If it's wrong, and I can prove it, I fix it.
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributormdnitoil
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,777
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Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
You might not look at the Notes, Hal. But some of us myself included DO, they are crucial in my assessment of an update and deciding whether to accept said update or not, insufficiennt verification simply wastes my time and dealing with a file totalling almost 7800 Profiles including wishlist, wasting my time is not something that I enjoy. You have very close to the same number I have, hal, except that you aren't sem-retired and your time I would think carries an even higher premium to you. I want correct, verified data, no ouija boards, dartboards, assumptions or guesses allowed.

In short, you want a yes vote me, verify your data and tell me how you did it, don't make me guess and don't waste my time. The Rule spell it all out very clearly contrary to the way some read it, they very clearly demand verification plain and simple no ifs, no ands, no buts and they begin hammering that home from the very FIRST page, carried right on through the Comment on your Contribution Notes page.

Skip

I appreciate your conundrum dealing with all your profiles, but let me hit you with a hypothetical.  Somebody makes cast/crew changes.  The notes say "updated cast/crew per film credits".  Everybody votes yes and the profile is approved.  Six months from now you go to run the update.  How does that note help you to determine if the update is actually any good?  Because you and I both know that this is the prototypical update for this type of data.  It's not like what I'm suggesting here is some sort of rare occurence.

My point is, relying on submission notes to somehow rate the quality of a profile update is just a fatally flawed strategy.  It's no wonder you desire these amazingly verbose notes.

The bottom line here is, once you're at the update stage, the horse is out of the barn.  For better or worse, everyone involved in the process has determined that the data being presented is the best available at that time.
 Last edited: by mdnitoil
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