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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Problem is... all we can go by is what the rules say... not what we "believe" he had in mind. We need to go by his rules... or if he decides to make a comment here to go beyond the rules.... or clarify them as the case may be. | | | | Pete | | | | Last edited: by Addicted2DVD |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,745 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
So does that mean that for any foreign film where the US distributor has replaced the original opening credits with English credits - and the original title is not in a copyright notice - original title cannot be used?
That probably means that we should remove original title from a whole lot of profiles, like most Japanese monster movies.
I can't believe that this is what Ken had in mind! Not only in the US. Both credits and copyright notice declare a certain DVD of mine as "John Rambo". No indication that the original title might be "Rambo". Yet it was contributed, voted 'yes' upon and accepted. And for good reason if you ask me. | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
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| Registered: August 3, 2007 |  Posts: 36 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Northbloke is correct on that... which just means you can't submit it to the online database since it is not coming from the copyright notice or the film credits... you can still use it locally if that is what you prefer. Just add it to your database and lock it. locking the title field also locks the original title field. I agree with that but the way I understand the rule is by stricly following what is written. "The Original Title field will contain the original title for the main feature in the country of origin." Our difference obviously comes from the update "Use the title from the copyright notice if available, otherwise from the film's credits." I don't believe the update superceeds the Foreign Title line it complements it and I don't grasp how the truth (common knowledge or however you want to call it) could be "altered" by the fact that the credits do not mention the Original Title. Our case is not specifically covered by the rules since the Original title is not (it seems) stated in the copyright notice nor the credits. Then "In cases where the title is the original title, leave the Original Title field blank." but the Original Title and the Title are not the same. By the way, I got answers on the French forum I was mentionning and they assure me that the French Title was used for the theater release however the teasing campaign before hand, used the English title. Might the cause of the descrepency regarding the movie posters. Update : +1 with GSyren |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,745 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
Problem is... all we can go by is what the rules say... not what we "believe" he had in mind. We need to go by his rules... or if he decides to make a comment here to go beyond the rules.... or clarify them as the case may be. yes, but there is a "foreign movie" section in the rules and until now no one has demanded that the "title in the country of origin" has to be found on the actual DVD - at least I am not aware of such a demand. I assume that is once again a debate where most users outside the US handled it with common sense, because most of our movies are foreign and suddenly there's a US DVD with a mainstream movie that's not CoO US and all hell breaks loose. | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
So does that mean that for any foreign film where the US distributor has replaced the original opening credits with English credits - and the original title is not in a copyright notice - original title cannot be used?
That probably means that we should remove original title from a whole lot of profiles, like most Japanese monster movies.
I can't believe that this is what Ken had in mind! Two completely different situations. Japanese monster movies are true foreign films...cast, crew and language. For the US release, they are dubbed into english. The Fith Element, while produced by a French company, was not made as a French film. It used American actors and the entire cast, with the exception of Milla Jovovich, spoke english. If my information is correct, it was dubbed into French for the French release. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,745 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Two completely different situations. Japanese monster movies are true foreign films...cast, crew and language. For the US release, they are dubbed into english.
The Fith Element, while produced by a French company, was not made as a French film. It used American actors and the entire cast, with the exception of Milla Jovovich, spoke english. If my information is correct, it was dubbed into French for the French release. But CoO is France. The movie wasn't made primarily for the US market and just because the actors spoke english doesn't make it an american movie. It's simply a marketing decision that a movie sells better worldwide when the audio track is english. | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
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| Registered: August 3, 2007 | | Posts: 36 |
| | Posted: | | | | Couldn't have stated it better.
It was indeed dubbed for the French market. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,217 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DJ Doena: Quote:
But CoO is France. Yes. But this doesn't mean the Original Title has to be french. Quote:
It's simply a marketing decision that a movie sells better worldwide when the audio track is english. ... and has an english Original Title. The only one who can answer this question is Luc Besson. As long as he doesn't chime in here I'll go for "The Fifth Element" as Original Title in this case. cya, Mithi | | | | Mithi's little XSLT tinkering - the power of XML --- DVD-Profiler Mini-Wiki |
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| Registered: August 3, 2007 | | Posts: 36 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mithi: Quote:
... and has an english Original Title.
Well that is the whole subject of this thread. Is the Original Title English or French ? |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think if the movie was filmed in English with mostly American cast, the original title is most likely going to be the title in English, regardless of CoO. It's common sense, but I guess that doesn't always apply in DVDP forum.  | | | | My Home Theater | | | | Last edited: by xradman |
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| Registered: May 18, 2007 |  Posts: 41 |
| | Posted: | | | | This movie is a French production by Gaumont which took considerable financial risks in producing it. The company needed worldwide distribution to recover their investment. It was from the beginning intended for a global audience and not merely for the domestic market in France (and the rest of the French speaking world). That is why they used a mostly American/British star-studded cast, shot the picture in English and gave it an English title.
The French titlle is an alternative title, just like all the other alternative titles the film was distributed under in different markets. In my understanding of the rules, and I really don't think that I am wrong here, the field "Original title" has to stay empty as the BD's release title is the original title. | | | | Last edited: by Konrad |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well said by both Konrad and xradman. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: August 3, 2007 | | Posts: 36 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Konrad: Quote:
The French titlle is an alternative title, just like all the other alternative titles the film was distributed under in different markets. In my understanding of the rules, and I really don't think that I am wrong here, the field "Original title" has to stay empty as the BD's release title is the original title. If that is the case I entirely agree but is it ? |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | The Prop Store of London has a pre-production file for sale and it has "Fifth Element" written on two pages. One of them here. I've never seen any evidence that the film was originally titled Le cinquième élément. I think this is a very special case, it's not very often we'll have production companies making films that aren't in their native language. And I think the others are right - when the titles rules were changed last, not all of them were updated and it's created a discrepancy that creating this problem. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,684 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Two completely different situations. Japanese monster movies are true foreign films...cast, crew and language. For the US release, they are dubbed into english.
The Fith Element, while produced by a French company, was not made as a French film. It used American actors and the entire cast, with the exception of Milla Jovovich, spoke english. If my information is correct, it was dubbed into French for the French release. I wasn't commenting on The Fifth Element. I was commenting on the statement that the original title must (always) come from either the credits or the copyright notice. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar | | | | Last edited: by GSyren |
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| Registered: May 18, 2007 | | Posts: 41 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Agilis78: Quote:
Quoting Konrad:
Quote:
The French titlle is an alternative title, just like all the other alternative titles the film was distributed under in different markets. In my understanding of the rules, and I really don't think that I am wrong here, the field "Original title" has to stay empty as the BD's release title is the original title.
If that is the case I entirely agree but is it ? I am quite sure it is. Let me give you an example of another Luc Besson film which is also a French production by Gaumont and has an English original title: Subway (1985, starring Isabelle Adjani, Christophe Lambert and Richard Bohringer). They didn't name it "Métro", they named it "Subway", so it is obviously not uncommon for Gaumont and specifically not for Luc Besson, to give their French productions English titles. | | | | Last edited: by Konrad |
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