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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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So cardboard boxes get cast and crew info now? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting antolod: Quote:
All 3 of the LOTR gift sets were originally set up as boxed sets. Here are the links to the contribution notes for each: No, they were not originally se up as box sets. If they had been, pplchamp wouldn't have made a contribution to remove the cast, crew, features, etc. from the profiles. Quote:
Whether or not the rules explicitly prohibit them from being considered boxed sets, that is the way they have been for over 3 years. Actually, it has been just over 2 years, but does it really matter? reybr and nolesrule are correct. There was a discussion concerning this type of gift set and the consensus was, they were not box sets. They were single releases with bonus discs. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 278 |
| | Posted: | | | | But the crux of my argument, is that even if it only contains a single release within, if the inner packaging has a separate UPC than the outer packing, the inner packaging contains the discs or titles that should be profiled. The outer packaging is just a cardboard box.
So when did we start adding cast and crew data for cardboard boxes? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Leiterfluid: Quote:
But the crux of my argument, is that even if it only contains a single release within, if the inner packaging has a separate UPC than the outer packing, the inner packaging contains the discs or titles that should be profiled. The outer packaging is just a cardboard box.
So when did we start adding cast and crew data for cardboard boxes? We started adding cast and crew data for cardboard boxes when distributors started selling these gift sets. The gift set contains the retail version of the DVD as well as a bunch of extras. Some people purchased the gift set, others purchased just the retail version. Many of the people wanted to have a single profile that covered the entire gift set. They did not want one profile for the box, with all the extras listed, and a second profile for the film. The rules define a box set as any release that includes more than one film. They say nothing about separate UPCs. Because the rules don't require a child profile in this case, we can not force those people who don't want one to use one. The only solution is to have a complete profile, for those that want it, and let the rest of us strip the data out locally. I say 'us' because that is what I did. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Unicus describes the discussion and end result exactly as I remember it. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | Who is to say what a film makes?
Is a 2 hour movie a film? Yes.
Is a 20 minute documentary a film? Yes.
Just because people want one profile, doesn't mean that the online DB has to reflect those wishes,
What about the people that want one profile for the Star Wars box set. We're not bending over backwards to make them happy.
And everyone wonders why no one follows the rules, we have different rules for the same basic concept. | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... | | | | Last edited: by NewEnglander |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pplchamp: Quote:
Who is to say what a film makes?
Is a 2 hour movie a film? Yes.
Is a 20 minute documentary a film? Yes. We had this exact same arguement 3, or so, years ago. Using the above definitions, any two-disc set, with a 'making of' documentary on the second disc, qualifies as a box set. Quote:
Just because people want one profile, doesn't mean that the online DB has to reflect those wishes,
What about the people that want one profile for the Star Wars box set. We're not bending over backwards to make them happy. Apples and oranges. Nobody is going to claim that the any of the Star Wars films aren't films.  Quote:
And everyone wonders why no one follows the rules, we have different rules for the same basic concept. I follow the rules.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,745 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Leiterfluid: Quote:
But the crux of my argument, is that even if it only contains a single release within, if the inner packaging has a separate UPC than the outer packing, the inner packaging contains the discs or titles that should be profiled. Yes but there are other releases out there that have a shiny cover around a keep case and the shiny cover has another UPC than the keep case. That does not constitute the shiny case as a box set. Its a case labelled "LOTR" and it contains one movie called LOTR and another disc with bonus material. It's not the same as a case labelled Star Wars/Indiana Jones which contains three movies and another disc with bonus material Strictly IMHO of course. | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
 | | | | Last edited: by DJ Doena |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 951 |
| | Posted: | | | | Agreed these really aren't box sets other than possibly the first release that includes the National Geographic Documentary.
As with the special releases from Target and other supercenters where there is a special slip cover or case with its own UPC and the inner package having the regular release UPC. We are not profiling these as box sets where the outer UPC is basically a blank profile. The outer UPC should have be profiling all the contents of the film (cast, crew, features, and ect.).
If someone wants to download all the profiles for the outer UPC and inner UPC and/or disc IDs. Then set it up as a box set locally then I see no issue with it. | | | Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways. |
| | Registered: May 25, 2007 | | Posts: 176 |
| | Posted: | | | | It occurs to that the 50th Anniversary Edition of The 10 Commandments (097360-412246) is a similar case.
The main profile is for the 1956 version of the film, and the cover clearly depicts this version. However, on a third disc it also includes the 1923 version which has it's own child profile (Disc ID I328B816F7487E71A), as if it was part of a box set. There doesn't seem to be a child profile for the 1956 version.
This setup works, but it doesn't seem to be exactly according to the rules. Should the main item be an empty container with two children, or should the 1923 version be treated as a bonus feature? Both of those seem to be more correct than the current profiles.
Any thoughts? |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Leiterfluid:
Quote:
But the crux of my argument, is that even if it only contains a single release within, if the inner packaging has a separate UPC than the outer packing, the inner packaging contains the discs or titles that should be profiled. The outer packaging is just a cardboard box.
So when did we start adding cast and crew data for cardboard boxes?
We started adding cast and crew data for cardboard boxes when distributors started selling these gift sets.
The gift set contains the retail version of the DVD as well as a bunch of extras. Some people purchased the gift set, others purchased just the retail version. Many of the people wanted to have a single profile that covered the entire gift set. They did not want one profile for the box, with all the extras listed, and a second profile for the film.
The rules define a box set as any release that includes more than one film. They say nothing about separate UPCs. Because the rules don't require a child profile in this case, we can not force those people who don't want one to use one.
The only solution is to have a complete profile, for those that want it, and let the rest of us strip the data out locally. I say 'us' because that is what I did. Good reasoning.  | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting wintermute115: Quote:
It occurs to that the 50th Anniversary Edition of The 10 Commandments (097360-412246) is a similar case.
The main profile is for the 1956 version of the film, and the cover clearly depicts this version. However, on a third disc it also includes the 1923 version which has it's own child profile (Disc ID I328B816F7487E71A), as if it was part of a box set. There doesn't seem to be a child profile for the 1956 version.
This setup works, but it doesn't seem to be exactly according to the rules. Should the main item be an empty container with two children, or should the 1923 version be treated as a bonus feature? Both of those seem to be more correct than the current profiles.
Any thoughts? This example is covered by the rules. Look under the Disc Features section, scroll to the bottom and read the part about Bonus Feature Films. It's explained there. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. | | | | Last edited: by Mark Harrison |
| | Registered: May 25, 2007 | | Posts: 176 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mark Harrison: Quote:
This example is covered by the rules. Look under the Disc Features section, scroll to the bottom and read the part about Bonus Feature Films. It's explained there. Ah, OK. I'd missed that. Thanks. Makes sense, then. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting wintermute115: Quote:
It occurs to that the 50th Anniversary Edition of The 10 Commandments (097360-412246) is a similar case.
The main profile is for the 1956 version of the film, and the cover clearly depicts this version. However, on a third disc it also includes the 1923 version which has it's own child profile (Disc ID I328B816F7487E71A), as if it was part of a box set. There doesn't seem to be a child profile for the 1956 version.
This setup works, but it doesn't seem to be exactly according to the rules. Should the main item be an empty container with two children, or should the 1923 version be treated as a bonus feature? Both of those seem to be more correct than the current profiles.
Any thoughts? Actually, it is exactly according to the rules. This is considered a 'Bonus Feature Film' and is covered in the rules here. Just scroll to the bottom of the page. Edit: I see Mark beat me to the punch.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 278 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting Leiterfluid:
Quote:
But the crux of my argument, is that even if it only contains a single release within, if the inner packaging has a separate UPC than the outer packing, the inner packaging contains the discs or titles that should be profiled. The outer packaging is just a cardboard box.
So when did we start adding cast and crew data for cardboard boxes?
We started adding cast and crew data for cardboard boxes when distributors started selling these gift sets.
The gift set contains the retail version of the DVD as well as a bunch of extras. Some people purchased the gift set, others purchased just the retail version. Many of the people wanted to have a single profile that covered the entire gift set. They did not want one profile for the box, with all the extras listed, and a second profile for the film.
The rules define a box set as any release that includes more than one film. They say nothing about separate UPCs. Because the rules don't require a child profile in this case, we can not force those people who don't want one to use one.
The only solution is to have a complete profile, for those that want it, and let the rest of us strip the data out locally. I say 'us' because that is what I did.
Good reasoning. Except for the fact that Unicus is using a completely arbitrary definition of what denotes a film. For example, the Howard Shore feature that comes with the return of the king gift set isn't just some 10-minute random collection of clips, it's a full 50-minute documentary. Because each of the extended edition packs within the gift set also have their own "special features" collection, adding this data to the parent profile is inaccurate. They follow the first rule defining a box set: Sets where each film is packaged individually, and held together in a package of some kind. Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King is film Creating the Lord of the Rings Symphony: A Composer's Journey Through Middle-Earth is also a film |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Leiterfluid: Quote:
Except for the fact that Unicus is using a completely arbitrary definition of what denotes a film. For example, the Howard Shore feature that comes with the return of the king gift set isn't just some 10-minute random collection of clips, it's a full 50-minute documentary. Because each of the extended edition packs within the gift set also have their own "special features" collection, adding this data to the parent profile is inaccurate. They follow the first rule defining a box set:
Sets where each film is packaged individually, and held together in a package of some kind.
Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King is film
Creating the Lord of the Rings Symphony: A Composer's Journey Through Middle-Earth is also a film Actually, I am not. I am basing my arguement on how the release was sold and is titled. I have these sets, as well as a few others, and they are titled 'Movie Name' Gift Sets, not 'Movie Name & Documentary' gift sets. The documentary is a bonus. Because of that, they are not box sets. They may, however, qualify for the 'Bonus Feature Films' clause mentioned above, but they are no more box sets than "Van Helsing: The Ultimate Collector's Edition (025192613920)...which includes the original "Dracula", "Frankenstein" & "The Wolfman"...or the Ben Hur set mentioned above. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Leiterfluid:
Quote:
Except for the fact that Unicus is using a completely arbitrary definition of what denotes a film. For example, the Howard Shore feature that comes with the return of the king gift set isn't just some 10-minute random collection of clips, it's a full 50-minute documentary. Because each of the extended edition packs within the gift set also have their own "special features" collection, adding this data to the parent profile is inaccurate. They follow the first rule defining a box set:
Sets where each film is packaged individually, and held together in a package of some kind.
Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King is film
Creating the Lord of the Rings Symphony: A Composer's Journey Through Middle-Earth is also a film
Actually, I am not. I am basing my arguement on how the release was sold and is titled. I have these sets, as well as a few others, and they are titled 'Movie Name' Gift Sets, not 'Movie Name & Documentary' gift sets. The documentary is a bonus. Because of that, they are not box sets.
They may, however, qualify for the 'Bonus Feature Films' clause mentioned above, but they are no more box sets than "Van Helsing: The Ultimate Collector's Edition (025192613920)...which includes the original "Dracula", "Frankenstein" & "The Wolfman"...or the Ben Hur set mentioned above. I'm sorry, but that makes little sense. Where in the rules does it say a box set has to be called a "Box set". Alien Quadrilogy Box Set? Nope. Superman Ultimate Collector's Edition Box Set? Nope. Neither of those have the "Box set" moniker in the title. IMO, gift sets need their own section in the rules. 1. Because the outer box is just that, a box. It contains 1 or more titles with a different UPC code than the outer box. It contains some kind of trinket or gift, maybe a comic, statue, money clip or what-have-you. Well, that 1 reason is all that is really needed to qualify this. There are toio many gift sets out there to not justify having rules for them: Spider-man Spider-Man 2 Seinfeld (had at least 3) Godfather Lord of the Rings (3) The Da Vinci Code Hellboy The Matrix E.T. and that's just off the top of my head. | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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