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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Previous   Next
Middle name: a pure american concept ?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAstrakan
Registered: Feb 12, 2000
Registered: March 28, 2007
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Quoting Rifter:
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Quoting Astrakan:
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It's the same in Sweden as it is in Germany. Emigrating to Canada it's been giving me some headaches, as my "middle" name is my primary name but all my identifications have only my "first" name and my last name. Stupid first/middle name system. 

KM


No, it isn't.  Your "official" name is first name: whatever passes for middle name: Surname.

That's the point, my official name is NOT the name that comes first on my birth certificate. My official name is what North American's would refer to as my middle name. This is the way my parents intended it, and the way my name appears on all my original Swedish identification documents - except for my birth certificate.

Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
That has nothing to do with the name you use to identify yourself among friends and family.
The point is that it's not just friends and family. My "middle" name is supposed to be my primary name, however you slice it, and the name that I'm supposed to be called by by anyone and everyone - be it in an official status or merely friend/family status.

Quoting Rifter:
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One is no more stupid than another, it's just what you grow up with and are familiar with.

While that's true, I wasn't so much referring to the tradition itself, and more to the government systems, which I wish were more accomodating than they are. As it stands, every single piece of documentation I have that is issued by the Canadian government has the wrong name listed.

A name which I was never intended to be referred to as, and with which I do not associate myself. Simply because the system applies so much importance on which name is listed first on my birth ceritificate, as opposed to what is my true primary and official name.

KM
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 Last edited: by Astrakan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsugarjoe
Registered: March 15, 2007
Germany Posts: 374
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Quoting Lithurge:
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We have middle names in the UK, so it's not an 'American concept'.

Although it appears the phrase itself was first used in an American publication.


Interesting, living in the UK now for almost 2 years I have never seen any form mentioning a 'middle name', it is always given Name(s), (sur)Name, have I missed something?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsnarbo
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting sugarjoe:
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Quoting Lithurge:
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We have middle names in the UK, so it's not an 'American concept'.

Although it appears the phrase itself was first used in an American publication.


Interesting, living in the UK now for almost 2 years I have never seen any form mentioning a 'middle name', it is always given Name(s), (sur)Name, have I missed something?


On a lot of Official Documents / Forms or will see areas for First (Given) Name, Surname (Family) and Other Names. Usually the Middle names are put into Other Names.

Steve
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsugarjoe
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting snarbo:
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On a lot of Official Documents / Forms or will see areas for First (Given) Name, Surname (Family) and Other Names. Usually the Middle names are put into Other Names.

Steve


Who says it is a middle name then?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsnarbo
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting sugarjoe:
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Quoting snarbo:
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On a lot of Official Documents / Forms or will see areas for First (Given) Name, Surname (Family) and Other Names. Usually the Middle names are put into Other Names.

Steve


Who says it is a middle name then?


Not me I'm not an Official...Government or otherwise...it's what I've been told to put my middle name when I've had to fill out one of their forms.

Steve
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLithurge
Paralysis by analysis
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting sugarjoe:
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Quoting Lithurge:
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We have middle names in the UK, so it's not an 'American concept'.

Although it appears the phrase itself was first used in an American publication.


Interesting, living in the UK now for almost 2 years I have never seen any form mentioning a 'middle name', it is always given Name(s), (sur)Name, have I missed something?


Nope they don't get called middle name on forms. But you'll never see a form requesting a 'christian' name either.

In day to day conversation they are referred to as first, middle and surname.
IVS Registered: January 2, 2002
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsugarjoe
Registered: March 15, 2007
Germany Posts: 374
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Quoting Lithurge:
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Nope they don't get called middle name on forms. But you'll never see a form requesting a 'christian' name either.

In day to day conversation they are referred to as first, middle and surname.


And is this middle name always a 'supplementary given name' or does it cover the American maiden name model as well?
 Last edited: by sugarjoe
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Astrakan,

My other obsession is genealogy and I see what you are describing all the time where a person's "official" name (or the name they go by) is the "middle" name. Which is why you see things like "J. Edgar Hoover" in American society.

In American society we typically have 3 names but a child can be named anything the parents want. Later, a person can change their name to anything they wish to change it to. There are no limits to the number of names in either first, middle or last name positions. We also place no limitations on hyphens. Some have them while others don't.

This isn't to say that we don't have generalities or "accepted" practices because we do and typically, those vary by age and where a person lives.

The reason for this diversity is that we, like Canada and Australia, are a nation of immigrants and those immigrants tend to settle in areas where others from the "home" country settled.

The issues you bring up here are not unique to you or you country. If a translation change needs to be made to the translation you are using, you can submit that but, if I were you, I wouldn't expect the U. S. version to change.
Dan
 Last edited: by Dan W
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLithurge
Paralysis by analysis
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting sugarjoe:
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Quoting Lithurge:
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Nope they don't get called middle name on forms. But you'll never see a form requesting a 'christian' name either.

In day to day conversation they are referred to as first, middle and surname.


And is this middle name always a 'supplementary given name' or does it cover the American maiden name model as well?


Usually it's a given name at birth. People do sometimes 'double barrell' their surname so they keep their maiden name as part of their surname. e.g. if their name was Jane Mary Allington, and they married a Mr Smith they could become Jane Mary Allington-Smith. But I don't believe it's that common.
IVS Registered: January 2, 2002
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsugarjoe
Registered: March 15, 2007
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I find this discussion quite interesting, thank you all for your constructive input.

For me one question remains:

Why is there a need for a middle name field in DVD Profiler?

It is source for many discussions and uncertainty and it looks like all the passports in the world (including US) can make it with given names(s), Surname.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorStaid S Barr
Registered: Oct 16, 2003
Registered: May 9, 2007
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Quoting sugarjoe:
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I find this discussion quite interesting, thank you all for your constructive input.

For me one question remains:

Why is there a need for a middle name field in DVD Profiler?

It is source for many discussions and uncertainty and it looks like all the passports in the world (including US) can make it with given names(s), Surname.


But on the other hand, all the visa forms you fill in, including in the Far East, require middle name, and us Europeans always run out of room with having two, three, or any number.

Anyway, whatever we call them, middle names come in handy to distinguish all those actors with the same name. I counted six Paul Smiths so far.
Hans
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAstrakan
Registered: Feb 12, 2000
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Dan W,
I have no desire for any change to the program. It works fine as it is. I'm mostly just having a general discussion in this thread. Perhaps out of topic for the sub-forum I'm in, but oh well.

KM
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
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An acquaintance of mine is named Carl Michael Petter Falck. But to everyone except the authorities he goes by the name Petter Falck. Not C. M. Petter Falck. Never Carl Falck. Does that make Petter a middle name? Not in Sweden. We don't have that concept.
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLDH
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Hey, don't blame me for what that goofy b*tch Clinton does.  Can't stand the woman.  The bottom line though is that an American wrote the program, and even though he has made prodigious effort to accommodate other nationalities, at the end of the day he used language and customs that he was familiar with and that were ingrained in him from life-long use.  I don't see "middle name" or the way it is used changing any time soon.



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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJonM
Registered 28 Dec 2000
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Quoting sugarjoe:
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Quoting snarbo:
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On a lot of Official Documents / Forms or will see areas for First (Given) Name, Surname (Family) and Other Names. Usually the Middle names are put into Other Names.

Steve


Who says it is a middle name then?


"Middle name" is just a slang term in spoken English. It isn't correct in written English because you can have several given names; which one is in the middle? It's just that most people only have one if any, therefore it's a popular ice-breaker in the typical UK office to ask, "What's your middle name then?" and heartily laugh when they say "Doris".

Especially when their first name is "Kevin" ... 

I've always found it an odd thing to find funny, because there's nothing wrong with the name Doris or most choices people have. It's just a strange UK thing that middle names are guarded more strongly than anything else.
Jon
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorSquirrelecto
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Dan W:
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Quoting Lithurge:
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We have middle names in the UK, so it's not an 'American concept'.

I think it's an "Greek" concept. Almost all "Greek" descendants have middle names. Many have more than one middle name. If I'm not mistaken, the "Greeks" have been doing this longer than most countries have been in existence, including the English.


Don't know about the origins of it but the majority of the time a male Greek's middle name will be his father's first name, whereas this is not a common practice in the UK. Not sure if it's the same for female Greeks.
 Last edited: by Squirrelecto
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