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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Bonus movie means box-set? |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 582 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote: Quoting Touti:I did, and unless I'm missing something it doesn't answer my question. It is considered a 'modified box set'. It is done the same way TV Series sets are. Main profile contains all the information, child profile for the extra film for those that want it. And yes, both are contributable. Thanks, I have a few like that but never bothered to create child profiles before and since the rules don't explain that I didn't realize that's what Mark meant. | | | My 4x4 Club: Club FJ Cruiser Quebec DVDP Français: Forum DVD Profiler Français DVDCOL:DVD Collectors Online Video: LG RU-42PX10 Audio: Sony DreamSystem DAVFX100W |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | I have a question related to this issue. I've just noticed that the Criterion editon of Brazil has been classed as a Box Set because it contains an alternate cut of the film. I never realised before but this isn't covered in the rules - are two cuts of the same film classed as two different films? They are on separate discs in separate keep cases. I've combined all the data back into the parent profile but won't submit if I'm wrong. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,321 |
| Posted: | | | | I think Brazil has always been a weird exception to the rule. And we've never found a good way to write the rules to handle this case. And since it existed in the database before the rules were rules, it has always just been left alone.
It might have to do with the fact that a long, long time ago, the Guidelines (as the rules were original called) said that to be a box set, the films had to be packaged in individual keep cases. And way back then, they almost always were. Then we got Back to the Future and I think that was the breaking point. Since they were in one tripple keep case (here in the States), soom didn't feel it was a box set and didn't want the individual films profiled. Others thought it was quite silly that we couldn't have profiles for the individual movies. So when the first Rules were formed, we did away with the "separate keep case" thing.
Anyway, I wouldn't swear to it, but I think that's why Brazil is the way it is. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here. Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I clicked submit about 5 mins ago cos I thought no one had read my note! I'll see what happens with the vote, and report back if anyone's interested. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,694 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Graveworm: Quote: I kind of think this is desirable. Otherwise how do you know if you have a film in your collection? Richard Pryor live in concert came with Stir crazy on another disk. If I didn't treat it as box set, I might have bought stir crazy by mistake or others might not know I had it when picking a film. Sorry, I don't buy the thing about not knowing what's in your collection. That isn't a valid reason to add it into the online DB. I have no problem with anybody wanting it locally. But, fundamentally, I can't understand the disconnect in understanding that when the studio calls it Bonus Material, some people can't seem to get that. I guess I'm just a Ludite. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964 Make America Great Again! |
| Registered: March 17, 2007 | Posts: 125 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
But, fundamentally, I can't understand the disconnect in understanding that when the studio calls it Bonus Material, some people can't seem to get that. I guess I'm just a Ludite. No, I would be the Luddite in preferring to call a movie a movie. These "bonus materials" were once considered full-fledged motion picture events with promotions, premieres, reviews and box-office results. But video companies know that Billy Joe Motorboat would shy away from a box set that includes a black and white and/or a silent film ~ so it has to be hidden in the Bonus Material. It's awesome that Warner Home Video is slipping in the original Ben Hur into the set while not offending the Wal-Mart crowd, but I choose not to follow in that disregard. I'm not trying to debate what's already been explained as per the rules. I'm just trying to explain the position of some who prefer a complete list of what is in their collection, rather than how the studio promoted it at the time. |
| Registered: April 7, 2007 | Posts: 357 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Sorry, I don't buy the thing about not knowing what's in your collection. That isn't a valid reason to add it into the online DB.
I have no problem with anybody wanting it locally.
But, fundamentally, I can't understand the disconnect in understanding that when the studio calls it Bonus Material, some people can't seem to get that. I guess I'm just a Ludite. They called it bonus material. I wonder if it is a box set hmm Lets look Quoting The Rules: Quote:
The term "Box Set" is used to define any release that includes more than one film.
Well looks like it is. If only there was some way of know what to do ?? Quoting The Rules: Quote:
Create individual profiles for each movie in these Box Sets. Use individual UPCs if they are available or use Disc ID (read on a DVD-ROM) if not. Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules with one exception - Cover Images. If a film is individually packaged, use the cover images from that packaging.
Not sure about being a luddite but I can just about work out what to do from these really complex instructions. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Correct you are graveworm. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 4,596 |
| Posted: | | | | I was worried that I'd have to get a degree in Rocket Science to figure it out . | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 2,694 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Graveworm: Quote: Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Sorry, I don't buy the thing about not knowing what's in your collection. That isn't a valid reason to add it into the online DB.
I have no problem with anybody wanting it locally.
But, fundamentally, I can't understand the disconnect in understanding that when the studio calls it Bonus Material, some people can't seem to get that. I guess I'm just a Ludite.
They called it bonus material. I wonder if it is a box set hmm Lets look Quoting The Rules:
Quote:
The term "Box Set" is used to define any release that includes more than one film.
Well looks like it is.
If only there was some way of know what to do ?? Quoting The Rules:
Quote:
Create individual profiles for each movie in these Box Sets. Use individual UPCs if they are available or use Disc ID (read on a DVD-ROM) if not. Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules with one exception - Cover Images. If a film is individually packaged, use the cover images from that packaging.
Not sure about being a luddite but I can just about work out what to do from these really complex instructions. That's a specious argument at best. What constitutes a film? You'll get different definitions on that from most people you ask. Are TV episodes films? How about cartoons. What's a Short Film? Nobody can agree on these definitions. The studio that produced that disc called it Bonus material. They weren't selling the 1925 version, they were selling the 1959 version with extras. If you have to have a profile for the 1925 version, I suppose you can. But it sure as hell isn't a box set, by intention or by design. To call it one is purely arbitrary on the part of certain people using this program. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964 Make America Great Again! |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 4,596 |
| Posted: | | | | To be honest, I think John makes a valid point. What is a box set really? Isn't it a collection of films, usually a film and it's sequels or like themed films, that are normally available as stand-alone releases? If a film is released to DVD and the discs contain previous versions of the same film, or even a different film that was never released...could that really be considered a "box set" in the traditional sense? I'm leaning towards no, especially if the additional film/s are included on bonus discs or listed with the "bonus Features" on the packaging. I'm kinda sea-sawing on this issue now. | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | Well, the concept was designed for a few "specialty" releases, such as The Ben-Hur SE which also contains the 1925 silent version, the recent Maltese Falcon, which also contains the ORIGINAL Malteses falcon and Satan Met a Lady. They are not traditional, or what one would consider traditional, however treating them otherwise leaves us with uncaptured data relative to the extra Features involved, all of which are Full Feature length films.. They are not shorts, cartoons or anyting else.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: April 7, 2007 | Posts: 357 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote: That's a specious argument at best. What constitutes a film? You'll get different definitions on that from most people you ask. Are TV episodes films? How about cartoons. What's a Short Film? Nobody can agree on these definitions. The studio that produced that disc called it Bonus material. They weren't selling the 1925 version, they were selling the 1959 version with extras. If you have to have a profile for the 1925 version, I suppose you can. But it sure as hell isn't a box set, by intention or by design. To call it one is purely arbitrary on the part of certain people using this program. Ah now I understand you are unsure if a film is film. I don't know if there could be a definitive answer to if any of your examples constitute a film. No doubt it would be one to debate on a case by case basis. However in this case we are discussing if a film constitutes a film I am pretty sure it does. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,321 |
| Posted: | | | | These really aren't boxsets. And they're not setup as boxsets. As Skip says, they're really special cases. You shouldn't be looking at the boxset rules for these because they're not covered there. In fact, these aren't covered in the rules at all. And yet they've existed in the database for a couple years now.
I can understand that someone might not want these additional profiles in their collection. What I can't understand is why they don't want them in the master database so others can take advantage of them. Ken has told us in the past that we have no shortage of database space. Plus these special cases are extremely rare. I wish those who don't want these profiles would just butt out. We've already made sure the main profile is indistinguishable from a regular profile, so this shouldn't have any effect whatsoever on them. And Ken has done everything but explicitly state in public that he's fine with these. If pushed, I'm sure we could get his public approval. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here. Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
| | Dan W | Registered: May 9, 2002 |
Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 980 |
| Posted: | | | | John, How you keep coming back with this "packaging" argument is beyond me. You have lost this argument (if you can call it that) now, for the third time and you're just repeating yourself. You still haven't justified how you consider it as being marketed as bonus material. Is it because the 1925 film is on disc 3 instead of discs 1 & 2? You should keep in mind that the 1959 version is too long to put on one disc. I don't see where it calls the 1925 version "Bonus Material" anywhere on the package. As a matter of fact, disc 4 is titled "About the Movies". Notice the plural reference without preference to either of the two films in the set. You will see, if you take the time to look, that the credits for both films are included on the back cover. You will also find that both films are mentioned in the video formats. Wow, they are both mentioned in the copyright too. I find it strange that the documentaries are not listed here. Both films are listed in the ratings as well. Again, no mention of the documentaries. Now, as far as graphics on the cover are concerned, I'll grant that there are no images from the 1925 version. Then again, we're talking commercialism here and what better way to promote the set than to use a stylized reprint of the highly successful 1959 one-sheet for the films release to theatres? Wonderful and effective image (not to mention familiar). Hmmm, let's open the package and see if we find anything inside which supports your assertions. Nope, not there either. We see a repeat of the credits for both films again. We also see chapter menus for each film and the documentaries. Sorry John, I just don't find anything which supports your opinion. To the contrary, this is packaged just like any other Digipak set. Since both films have the same basic title, there really is no reason to list it twice. What would you have them do, call it the Ben-Hur Ben-Hur Collection? Just for kicks, here is an image of the 1959 one-sheet. Here is the front cover edited to remove an unnecessary comment | | | Dan | | | Last edited: by Dan W |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 3,321 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote: What constitutes a film? You'll get different definitions on that from most people you ask. Are TV episodes films? How about cartoons. What's a Short Film? Well, just as a conversation starter here, I would say that for this case (bonus "films" as bonus features), we should consider something a film and profile it if it was marketed as a main feature. For example, Ben-Hur (1925) I would guess was shown in theaters as the main attraction. It should be profiled. If Disney released something like an Uber-Alladin set that had the two direct to video releases on there as bonus features, they should be profiled. They weren't in theaters, but they were sold on their own as the main feature at one point. If you have a cartoon that was shown along side a feature presentation in 1950, that would not be profiled. It wasn't the main attraction. I don't think we should be looking at packaging or marketing materials (ie the back of the DVD cover). That's as bad as when we couldn't profile the Back to the Future movies because they didn't come in their own cases. I'd love to say we continue to use common sense as we have for the past few years. It's served us well to this point. But I guess when you reach a certain threshhold of users looking at things, you eventually have to get it into the rules. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here. Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. | | | Last edited: by Mark Harrison |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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