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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1... 14 15 16 17  Previous   Next
RFC: Filter for Jr.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
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So be it, I just take it and swallow it. Just like the other multi-culti standards I don't agree with.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
 Last edited: by Daddy DVD
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
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Quoting Daddy DVD:
Quote:
So be it, I just take it and swallow it. Just like the other multi-culti standards I don't agree with.


I understand how you feel, but let's look at it as a sacrifice for a greater good. 

I think the Credited As name should be as accurate as possible, but the Common Name is just a conventional label for a pointer: the important thing is that it links all the credits of the same actor or crew member.
-- Enry
 Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
France Posts: 4,479
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Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:

I think the Credited As name should be as accurate as possible, but the Common Name is just a conventional label for a pointer: the important thing is that it links all the credits of the same actor or crew member.


In the contrary, I think common name should be as accurate as possible, and be, if known, the name the person uses for him(her)self, which is easy for most well-known actors. And it is easy to change if the person decides to modify his(her) name (generally women when marrying or divorcing).

I've not yet seen any interest in the concept of "credited as" name, and never read any explanation other than it is the contribution rules standard. It just leads to the well known linking problems and pages of hard discussions.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
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I agree with Yves. The common name should be the real name of a person and not the way he/she has been credited the most which is hard to find out since we don't use everything in the credits and the CLT does not differentiate between multiple titles for the same movie.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
Quoting Daddy DVD:
Quote:
So be it, I just take it and swallow it. Just like the other multi-culti standards I don't agree with.


I understand how you feel, but let's look at it as a sacrifice for a greater good. 

I think the Credited As name should be as accurate as possible, but the Common Name is just a conventional label for a pointer: the important thing is that it links all the credits of the same actor or crew member.

Hooray, Enry. A very simple explanation. What the COmmon Name is really irrelevant, it serves as the link between the various credited possibilities...nothing more or less. We could just as easily assign colors instead of Common Names.

And for surfeur, therein lies the basic problem, is that you want it your way instead of the Profiler way. I have said before many times that I think the link system as Ken implemented it is fundamentally flawed, and that a simple association system would function much better, but that is what Ken has chosen, so I I make my choice based on the inherent problems caused by the Common Name issue based on flawed user input. What someone's "correct" name is totally irrelevant to the Program, we aren't sending out greeting cards or building family histories, we are Profiling DVDs based on the ACTUAL data that is used in association with a given Movie or TV Show.

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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting Daddy DVD:
Quote:
I agree with Yves. The common name should be the real name of a person and not the way he/she has been credited the most which is hard to find out since we don't use everything in the credits and the CLT does not differentiate between multiple titles for the same movie.

Martin:

How can YOU or Yves know what someone's "real" name is, unless you are THAT person. I could list all the possible ways trhat my name could be credited in a film, you would have absolutely NO idea which one would be considered my "real"(legal) name or which I might consider my "real" (preferred) name, unless you asked. The premise of the "real" name is merely chasing one's tail.

And remember there is more here than simply the "A" lis performers which can easily be documented, usually, but there are also the unknowns and little knowns which really takes the 'real' name argument into the Twilight Zone because most of those are going to be nigh impossible to document.

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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorArdos
Registered: July 31, 2008
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The problem with using a person's real name is that for a number of actors, the name they're known by isn't their actual name, or at least not their birth name.

To name a few -

Walter Bruce Willis - Bruce Willis

Michael John Douglas - Michael Keaton

Maurice Joseph Micklewhite - Michael Caine

Frances Ethel Gumm - Judy Garland
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Quoting Forget_the_Rest:
Quote:
The problem with using a person's real name is that for a number of actors, the name they're known by isn't their actual name, or at least not their birth name.

To name a few -

Walter Bruce Willis - Bruce Willis

Michael John Douglas - Michael Keaton

Maurice Joseph Micklewhite - Michael Caine

Frances Ethel Gumm - Judy Garland


I didn't speak of real name or birth name, but the name the person uses for him(her)self, at least in movie world. Bruce Willis, Michael Keaton, Michael Caine, Judy Garland or even John Wayne are perfect for me. Jean Paul Belmondo or Francois Truffaut are not, since themselves use Jean-Paul and François.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorArdos
Registered: July 31, 2008
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Ok, then you've got the same problem that we've got now, that people tend to change what they call themselves.

Ricky Schroeder/Rick Schroeder
Dee Wallace/Dee Wallace-Stone
And so on.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
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Quoting Forget_the_Rest:
Quote:
Ok, then you've got the same problem that we've got now, that people tend to change what they call themselves.

Ricky Schroeder/Rick Schroeder
Dee Wallace/Dee Wallace-Stone
And so on.


And now it seems Rick Schroeder is back to Ricky Schroeder... as that is how he was credited in the last season's 24. 
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDaddy DVD
Lost in Translation
Registered: March 14, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 2,366
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Quoting surfeur51:
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I didn't speak of real name or birth name, but the name the person uses for him(her)self, at least in movie world. Bruce Willis, Michael Keaton, Michael Caine, Judy Garland or even John Wayne are perfect for me. Jean Paul Belmondo or Francois Truffaut are not, since themselves use Jean-Paul and François.

Yes, with real name I also didn't meant birth name but his/her correct name.
Martin Zuidervliet

DVD Profiler Nederlands
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Posts: 1,807
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting Forget_the_Rest:
I didn't speak of real name or birth name, but the name the person uses for him(her)self, at least in movie world. Bruce Willis, Michael Keaton, Michael Caine, Judy Garland or even John Wayne are perfect for me. Jean Paul Belmondo or Francois Truffaut are not, since themselves use Jean-Paul and François.



"the name the person uses for him(her)self, at least in movie world." is the name in the film's credits, which we (try to) record as exactly as we can.
The most commonly credited name we call the Common Name, which we determine by the CLT and use for linking purposes.

Only problem, there are slight stylistic variants which make the CLT system a total mess when it comes to juniors and seniors (the way they are abbreviated), double initials with spaces and without spaces, double and single quotes, and more. 
Not only the linking system is heavily affected, but contributions become more difficult than most users can handle, with endless arguing about the "correct" name. But the "correct" name already is (should be) in the Credited As field, if different from the linking Name!

That's why we need a few standardizations for Common Names, in order to make the system work, even if I understand that someone will not be pleased in seeing a name a bit different from the one they deem to be "correct", but like I said that's small price for the "greater good" of the whole system working as it is intended to be. 
-- Enry
 Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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"Correct" name? You can't possibly KNOW that, Martin. You can only base that on a set of parameters of your choice. In Profiler we have ONE parameter, which if entered correctly, leads to the second parameter. AS CREDITED is the first parameter we use, which means as you see it On Screen, if that data has been correctlt entered then we can use the MOST COMMONLY CREDITED name in our database, it is a very simple procedure. Unfortunately there are users out there mucking up the entire procedure, which has made our Tool of questionable value at best.

The part of this discussion, is that it almost always relates to "A" listers, and that is fine, but once you dig into the lower levels of the business, it then should become very clear to ALL why we do what we do and our Rules must apply across the board, not just the ":A" listers which can be documented, but also to the sometimers who are complete unknowns and documentation will be difficult if not impossible. It's amazing.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
Quoting Forget_the_Rest:
I didn't speak of real name or birth name, but the name the person uses for him(her)self, at least in movie world. Bruce Willis, Michael Keaton, Michael Caine, Judy Garland or even John Wayne are perfect for me. Jean Paul Belmondo or Francois Truffaut are not, since themselves use Jean-Paul and François.



"the name the person uses for him(her)self, at least in movie world." is the name in the film's credits, which we (try to) record as exactly as we can.
The most commonly credited name we call the Common Name, which we determine by the CLT and use for linking purposes.

Only problem, there are slight stylistic variants which make the CLT system a total mess when it comes to juniors and seniors (the way they are abbreviated), double initials with spaces and without spaces, double and single quotes, and more. 
Not only the linking system is heavily affected, but contributions become more difficult than most users can handle, with endless arguing about the "correct" name. But the "correct" name already is (should be) in the Credited As field!

That's why we need a few standardizations for Common Names, in order to make the system work, even if I understand that someone will not be pleased in seeing a name a bit different from the one they deem to be "correct", but like I said that's small price for the "greater good" of the whole system working as it is intended to be. 


^5 Enry and applause

I loved your one comment. "the one they deem to be "correct"", that is personal preference, what they deem to be "correct" may not be the one that YOU deem correct or mine, or hal's.

Take a bow.

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ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 6,018
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"Dr Pavlov"? Are you referring to the Russian scientist (and his dog)? 

Somehow that would surprise me...    
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
France Posts: 4,479
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Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:

...Only problem, there are slight stylistic variants which make the CLT system a total mess when it comes to juniors and seniors...


This is far to be the only problem. What about capitalized letters that american users refuse to transform with correct accented lower case letters? And what about typos on credits that sometimes show Jean Paul or Jean François instead of Jean-Paul or Jean-François (with further consequences in first /middle name), not speaking about the mess in asian names...
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