Quoting Pantheon:

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Quoting No_Name_Needed:

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Quoting Pantheon:

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If we, as the users, can't even follow a few rules then maybe we don't deserve this program or any support supposedly promised by its creators.

I miss this the first time... Since when am I supposed to act in a special way to deserve something I've paid for?

When I read comment like that I have no problem to understand the point of view of Alien, Sam and many others here who don't dissect every words in a sentence to turn it in whatever way to excuse a piss poor excuse for support...

Some people are way to bend over ready to receive a nice fisting to be taken seriously...

...nice fisting????!!!! Do we go to the same clubs??
Borderline offensive? Yes. Funny? Yes.

I have now laughed twice at the fisting. The first time it was said, now with 'belonging to the same club'. 

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Seriously though, the point I was trying to make (that you don't seem to have understood) is that we paid for program to catalogue our DVD/BD collections.
At least, that's what I paid for.

I paid for that, as well as a database and the expectation of a representative to be around to clear up confusion.

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I don't remember seeing that Invelos were going to be holding my hand and skipping along side me while I inputted my collection or sent in some contributions.

I don't think anyone here expects that. But just to pop in and clear up confusion isn't too much to ask.

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In all honesty - if I had my way - I'd completely obliterate the forum.
I'd work with Invelos via email to make the rules clear and concise - and constantly updated.
Then I'd enjoy my DVD collection and the contribution process.

YES. I could not agree more. I would completely get behind that.

(And to add, real communication from the screeners instead of ghetto canned comments and their ability to veto by line.)

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And...as to all you people who prefer IMDB data - why bother using Profiler at all? There are plenty of other programs (some with a much nicer interface) that import data from IMDB. That would stop you all having to customise the data when you download it. I'm not being facetious here...it really baffles me!

For me, easy, linking. The linking system in Profiler is ass. In my experience, IMDB is no more accurate than DVD Profiler (and even with that IMDB doesn't have nearly as many errors as people claim). If I'm going to deal with two evils, I might as well go with one that links properly. I use Profiler for the covers and description. Both can be used hand-in-hand.

Quoting Kulju:

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Quoting Mark Harrison:

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I'll give Skip credit where credit is due.  As he mentioned above, rather than complain on the forums, he did take the bull by the horns.  And thanks to him getting the ball rolling, we're much better off today than we were back then (in my opinion).

And what exactly is the correct action to "take the bull by the horns"? In my opinion it is to be active on rules forum as people have done. Only one who hasn't done that is KEN.

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Anyway, I do agree with Skip to a degree.  Don't like the way things are working?  Then do some constructive about it.

Again, in current situation what would that be?

One possible scenario.  Do it like we did with the original rules.  Take a section.  Start a discussion.  Get input from everyone.  Then re-write the rule exactly as you wish for it to appear in the official rules.  Put it up for a vote.  If you've done everything properly and most people agree with the wording, hand it off to Ken to drop into the official rules.  He then reviews it and makes any changes he wants and updates the rules.

Will that work?  I actually have no idea to be honest.  It worked in the past.  At least once.  Can't recall if the second set of changes ever made it to the rules or not.  I can say it would be a lot of work.  Especially with so many people (hopefully) participating.  It would certainly go better with a neutral person guiding people along, breaking up fights, keeping people on task.  And that's where assistance from Ken / Gerri would come in handy.  Due to the way people are allowed to behave on this site, I can't think of a single person outside of Ken / Gerri who could successful lead such a task.  I think it could be done, but it would be much tougher without that guidance.  Or this whole idea of trying to craft new rules could be a complete waste of time.  But if Ken isn't going to say yes or no, then I think it's at least worth a shot.

What I do know is that when something isn't working, it's time to try something else.  We're on page 14-15 on this thread.  And there have been many similar threads over the years that all lead to the same dead end.  People blow off steam, vent their frustrations, beg for Ken to participate more and ultimately those threads just die off after people get tired of complaining.  I think threads like these qualify as "not working".  I think it's time to try something else.  I've laid out one possible scenario.  There are probably other constructive ways to make things better.  But I fall into the "I was never promised support" camp, so I really don't care all that much at this point in time.

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Unlike others I don't complain about support. I have given up a long time ago. Most of the problems are related to Cast & Crew section. Trying to fix that with rule changes is like pissing in the forrest fire.

I agree 100% about the Cast & Crew.  If I were so inclined to tackle this project (and I'm not), I would pick something rather small.  Something that needs changing but something where most people would rather quickly come to a consensus.  Then I'd run that by Ken and see if it was worth the effort.  To start on something like Cast & Crew would likely be a bigger waste of time than this thread.

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In my opinion most of the problems are result of bad database design...

A bit offtopic, but that's my opinion

Yeah, it's a bit off topic.  Still a fascinating read and I agree with many of your ideas.  But I don't see what it has to do with Invelos not participating.

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Oh, and don't sit down with an egg in your pocket.

Sam, I think you’re making a statement that assumes we all think like you.  Actually I Iike to sit down with eggs in my pocket and I know for a fact that lots of other people do too and value the tactile sensation it gives them.  (And yes, I appreciate that my statement means more than one egg, rather than yours that clearly restricts itself to one egg only.)  However, it’s typical of people around here (except me of course) to make a general sweeping statement and think it applies to all.  IT DOES NOT!  I’d prefer not to see this sort of thing included in the database.  You can keep eggs in your shoes or your underwear locally for all I care, but I don’t believe this is what we’re trying to record in the database, even though the Rules as they stand at present don’t actually exclude eggs specifically.  Although it’s clear that we should follow the Rules as they’re written and not reinterpret them to fit our own preferences at any time, this is of course an exception to that rule.  In any case, if an egg was was submitted I’d also want to see it evidenced with a photo, or the very least a dry cleaning bill that clearly states “egg” on it somewhere.  To be honest, unless God him or herself (or a recognised deity of your choice) has signed a legally binding document, it’s unlikely that anything that’s submitted will provide the sort of evidence that’s required.  Regardless, eggs are clearly similar to voiceovers for stuntmen and should thus be treated as non-anamorphic Location Crew and never included in the Overview.  If they're Free Range, this should be indicated using the Edition field.  The Location should be set reflect which pocket it was in.  It's also likely that you'll need to use the Egg Box Set Rules too.  Oh, and it's spelt égg btw.

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Do you mean a fried egg? A scrambled egg? A raw egg? If it's fried is it over easy? Over hard? ZOMG SAM THERE COULD BE THOUSANDS OF INTERPRETATIONS HERE!!111!!!!ONEONEUNO!11!

I entirely agree with this.  To make matters worse, you haven’t even said what sort of egg it is.  This sort of half-baked data is next to useless.  And don’t get me started on the fact that no one has any idea if it even broke or not when you sat down, even though this is probably the most important information of all.  I'm sorry, but going to go on and on and on about this until Ken personally visits me to agree with everything I've said.

Incidentally, eggs in pockets have been discussed several times before, if you’d only bothered to check first,
here
here
here
here
here
here
here and
here.

From another thread:

Quoting SpikyCactus:

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Oh dear, I appear to be creatively bankrupt this evening and can’t think of anything *funny to write. 

Quoting SpikyCactus:

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Oh, and don't sit down with an egg in your pocket.

Sam, I think you’re making a statement that assumes we all think like you.

Spikey,

I don't think you're creatively bankrupt.  Clearly you're just more inspired by fowl than bovines.  It happens.

Quoting samuelrichardscott:

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I think a lot of people are going completely off base with many things. Whatever you think the "expect presence" means, I'm sure everyone agrees that Invelos are not involved enough in answering questions to help people contribute.

I found this sentence quite interesting. After all, many complaints in regards of the missing "support" are aimed at the lack of updates of the rules.

The funny twist: the database is Invelos' asset, one of the main selling points. The database can only get better, if the rules are updated and everyone applies them the same way to the profiles before contribution. So, it would appear the database as it is now is "good enough"...? In which case, what are we all worried about, contributions just need to continue the way they are going now?

Quoting samuelrichardscott:

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I think a lot of people are going completely off base with many things. Whatever you think the "expect presence" means, I'm sure everyone agrees that Invelos are not involved enough in answering questions to help people contribute. No matter what your opinion, I'm sure most would agree on the following few points:
1) If a ruling is made in the forum by Ken/Gerri and it helps clear up possible misinterpretations of the rules, the guidelines should be updated to reflect this, give everyone a better understanding and lessen the number of identical threads and the frustrations of getting a no vote because you can't remember a three year old forum posting.
2) If Invelos posted a little more to help discussions come to a conclusion, things would be a lot sweeter around here instead of thirty page threads about asian name parsings that just go round in circles.
3) It would be nice for Invelos to post in the technical support forum when users have a problem instead of relying on the great forum members to help all the time.
4) It would be nice to see some posts from Invelos in the feature request forums to know if peoples requests are workable and the possibility of them in the future. There are hundreds of awesome requests, ignored by Invelos.

This thread has thrown up many non-issues also. Nobody here as said any member's contributions are rubbish. Nobody here has said the actual program is rubbish and not the best on the market. Nobody has even said the rules are rubbish. They don't need rewritten IMO, they need tweaking as and when things arise, not left to old forum posts. The exact same thread types with the exact same questions repeat themselves.

I can mostly agree with that post

Quoting Pantheon:

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There are plenty of other programs (some with a much nicer interface) that import data from IMDB. That would stop you all having to customise the data when you download it.

I do not know any better program than dvdprofiler specially to display headshots and screencaptures in specific layouts. But if you have an interesting suggestion, I'm opened to try it.

I do not customize data that I download, as I do not use at all Invelos online database with its spelling mistakes, its group dividers,  its overviews filled with spoilers and advertising and its covers that do not match with mine. It is quickier to build a profile from scratch.

I am not surprised surfeurQuoting surfeur51:

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Quoting Pantheon:

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There are plenty of other programs (some with a much nicer interface) that import data from IMDB. That would stop you all having to customise the data when you download it.

I do not know any better program than dvdprofiler specially to display headshots and screencaptures in specific layouts. But if you have an interesting suggestion, I'm opened to try it.

I do not customize data that I download, as I do not use at all Invelos online database with its spelling mistakes, its group dividers,  its overviews filled with spoilers and advertising and its covers that do not match with mine. It is quickier to build a profile from scratch.

I am not surprised surfeur. But then you don'T understand the difference between imagination and what the data REALLY says. I find it very presumtious of you to believe that you have the ability to determine what is or is not a typo, whether it was deliberate or not, or even what the correct spelling is if the DATA says something else. I find it presumptious of you, but based on the fact that you bring up the same topic if someone so much as twitches, gosh, I can fit it in to this topic, but I am not surprised