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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Invelos = Terrible support |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kulju: Quote:
I can't say how much I love the idea of this secret group re-writing the rules under your command behind the curtains. If that ever happens I'm quite sure that'll be the day when I join in that merry group who doesn't contribute anymore. Actually, that's how the rules we have today came from the guidelines we used to have. It was a secret group operating independently. The next major iteration of the rules came from that same core group +/- a few members here and there. I'll give Skip credit where credit is due. As he mentioned above, rather than complain on the forums, he did take the bull by the horns. And thanks to him getting the ball rolling, we're much better off today than we were back then (in my opinion). That said, I think the idea of a secret committee doing this work behind the scenes is a bit outdated. I think we're far better off doing it here in the area Ken setup with full transparency. Of course the downside of that plan is with so many contributing, it would take roughly forever to accomplish anything. We have good people, but without the proper leadership, we would just travel in the same old circles. I've been there. It's not a fun trip. Ken and/or Gerri could very easily fill that leadership role. I'm not really sure anyone else could. The problem with the rest of us is that nearly every member carries too much baggage to lead a group here. It wouldn't even take much time for Ken. Oh well, that's for him to decide. Anyway, I do agree with Skip to a degree. Don't like the way things are working? Then do some constructive about it. That would be great with Ken's stamp of approval of course. But even without that, I still think it's a better use of someone's time to at least try than to constantly complain. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree that saying to expect something isn't a promise. I believe he wanted to do what was in the post when he wrote it. But I read that statement and I can't say he promised anything. This is reading the words as they are written.
I would also go as far as him saying he will be present is a different thing then saying he would participate. I have checked Ken's profile page over the last few days... and he has logged into the forum each day. The last time being just this afternoon. So it is arguable that he is present whether he chooses to participate or not.
What with me being a rather literal person... these things is a good part of the reason I just can't get upset about what is in that post. It isn't because I am ready to "lie down and take it" but because I don't feel like there was a promise that was broken.
Would I like to see Ken and/or Gerri participate more? Sure... but going by past experience of years I can't expect it. And nothing in that post makes me feel like I was lied to. But like I said... I am a literal person I read the words for what they actually mean. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting samuelrichardscott: Quote:
Where are all these users and why don't they contribute? You know why... I don't work for free and even less in double, Censorship piss me off, I don't like to see my hard work destroy by people who don't own the dvd in question, Contribution is a popularity contest, The database is useless to me, I don't use other people works, ... But I've never said no when friends ask for my profile... I even offer it when I see that someone buy something I have that is incomplete when I check his/her collection. Edit : Some of the long time user are quite pathetic with their grammatical analyse in this thread... | | | | Last edited: by Jimmy S |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
If invelos says they will offer ongoing support, then I expect them to do so. If they are not going to do what they claim. they should immediately remove those statements saying they will.
Ah, but there is the rub...Invelos didn't say that they were going to offer ongoing support. They said we could "expect a persistent, ongoing presence in these forums." Note it says presence, not support. And even that isn't an actual promise because they used the word 'expect'...which means that it is likely to happen, not that it will happen.
Quote:
It is the perceived deception that is most disturbing and will lead to the following problem.
Indeed it is the perceived deception that is the problem because, in my opinion, there was no deception. Ken made a post, four years ago, trying to explain the switch from Intervocative to invelos. In that post, he stated what he hoped to be able to give us...a persistent, ongoing presence and regular program updates. For whatever reason, neither of those things happened but, again, he never promised that they would.
I feel I should also point out that we are talking about a forum post here. Neither the FAQ nor the product page mention support, ongoing or otherwise.   It's always annoyed me when people excused other actions as "That's just Jim being Jim" It's a B.S. excuse that doesn't hold any water. I agree that it's a great program but it is frustrating that the support isn't close to what it should be. It's not that I expect ti to change because there is plenty of evidence that Ken really doesn't give a rats arse about the forums and/or support. I am one of those that hasn't contributed as much as I could. I'm not willing to spend the time nor energy creating contributions that could be denied over simple mistakes. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800
BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii
Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server |
| | Registered: September 18, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,650 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting No_Name_Needed: Quote:
Edit :
Some of the long time user are quite pathetic with their grammatical analyse in this thread... Well, if you want to stay in the good books, you have to stick up for the program in any way you can, no matter how hard it is to clutch at those straws. We should just all be happy that Invelos do not care for the current userbase who make the program what it is BECAUSE IT WAS TWENTY DOLLARS!. WOLVERINES! btw, BBQ at my house for the secret 'bpr' committee. 8pm. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting samuelrichardscott: Quote:
btw, BBQ at my house for the secret 'bpr' committee. 8pm.  Guess I'm not secret enough to get an invite. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800
BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii
Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mark Harrison: Quote:
Actually, that's how the rules we have today came from the guidelines we used to have. It was a secret group operating independently. The next major iteration of the rules came from that same core group +/- a few members here and there. I'm very aware of this Quote:
I'll give Skip credit where credit is due. As he mentioned above, rather than complain on the forums, he did take the bull by the horns. And thanks to him getting the ball rolling, we're much better off today than we were back then (in my opinion). And what exactly is the correct action to "take the bull by the horns"? In my opinion it is to be active on rules forum as people have done. Only one who hasn't done that is KEN. Quote:
That said, I think the idea of a secret committee doing this work behind the scenes is a bit outdated. I think we're far better off doing it here in the area Ken setup with full transparency. Exactly Quote:
Of course the downside of that plan is with so many contributing, it would take roughly forever to accomplish anything. We have good people, but without the proper leadership, we would just travel in the same old circles. I've been there. It's not a fun trip. Ken and/or Gerri could very easily fill that leadership role. I'm not really sure anyone else could. You're correct again Quote:
The problem with the rest of us is that nearly every member carries too much baggage to lead a group here. It wouldn't even take much time for Ken. Oh well, that's for him to decide. Unfortunately he has decided not to take that time against what he made us believe earlier and that's what peole are upset for. Quote:
Anyway, I do agree with Skip to a degree. Don't like the way things are working? Then do some constructive about it. Again, in current situation what would that be? Unlike others I don't complain about support. I have given up a long time ago. Most of the problems are related to Cast & Crew section. Trying to fix that with rule changes is like pissing in the forrest fire. In my opinion most of the problems are result of bad database design. Ken should first fix that, then we shoud put some effort to fit the rules on those changes. Before database changes it's totally useless. It would take a total overhaul though. In my opinion: - Database should use one name field instead of three (no more name parsing) - Cast & Crew should have unique ID's for proper name linking (Bye, bye CLT, BY, problems with asian names and accents etc.) - Unicode support for possibility to enter all needed characters - Cast & Crew tables should be combined so "Clint Eastwood" as a director would be a same person as "Clint Eastwood" the actor. - Movie and disc data separated (Movie data shared with all releases of the same film) I won't hold my breath, but if that will ever happen I'm willing to do a lot of work what's needed on users side to correct linking etc. At present I use DVDP for everything else except for Cast & Crew. IMDB is superior on that side. It just doesn't make any sence to do full Cast & Crew audit on Matrix when after that work there are still 80 releases of the same movie on db where your work doesn't effect. Of course I understand that it wouldn't be 100% perfect, but compared to currect situatiation I couldn't give a rat's arse if someone is actually credited Dave instead of David on a release I own. If I loose my sleep about that I could always do a local change and set needed locks. It would be easy to deal with regional additions on Cast & Crew (animated films voices for example). There should be four tables for Cast & Crew. 1. Shared Cast (Type original credits here, shared with all other same film releases in db) 2. Shared Crew (Type original credits here, shared with all other same film releases in db) 3. "local" Cast (Type regional credits here, shared with other user but effects only to that release, like present Cast. ) 4. "local" Crew (Type regional credits here, shared with other user but effects only to that release, like present Crew. ) User should be able to choose if he/she would like to have shared or local or both visible for him/her. A bit offtopic, but that's my opinion |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting samuelrichardscott: Quote:
btw, BBQ at my house for the secret 'bpr' committee. 8pm.  Great! I'll be there. Would you please announce the meetings a bit earlier next time? You know how hard it is to book a flight to your island. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: September 18, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,650 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DoubleDownAgain: Quote:
Quoting samuelrichardscott:
Quote:
btw, BBQ at my house for the secret 'bpr' committee. 8pm.
Guess I'm not secret enough to get an invite. Must've been lost in post. Sorry buddy.  |
| | Registered: September 18, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,650 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Silence_of_Lambs: Quote:
Quoting samuelrichardscott:
Quote:
btw, BBQ at my house for the secret 'bpr' committee. 8pm.
Great!
I'll be there.
Would you please announce the meetings a bit earlier next time? You know how hard it is to book a flight to your island. Of course, my apologies. Next meeting shall be in my birthplace, Hanover (typical UK military child). That should be easier for you.  | | | | Last edited: by samuelrichardscott |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | at the sheer desperation shown in this thread to defend the complete lack of service. Wow. So I guess when someone says I should expect their presence, I shouldn't expect their presence because "expect my presence" doesn't really mean that. It means something else. But not what I (or 99.9% of population) know it means. Pathetic. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
at the sheer desperation shown in this thread to defend the complete lack of service. Wow.
So I guess when someone says I should expect their presence, I shouldn't expect their presence because "expect my presence" doesn't really mean that. It means something else. But not what I (or 99.9% of population) know it means.
Pathetic. I'm pathetic because I read words for what they actually means. Someone can be present without participation. Whether you or anyone else likes it or not the two words have a different meaning. All I did is go on record on how I personally read the statement. I never once said that is how it is meant or how others should read it. All I do is give my personal outlook on the situation and the post... and I get called pathetic for it! Talk about insulting!   | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
at the sheer desperation shown in this thread to defend the complete lack of service.
Here's what I think....maybe if the user base of this program showed even the slightest bit of gratitude to the people who do all the contributions, or the screeners who process those contributions, then maybe more people would start demanding better support from the owners. The reason I don't bother blathering on about support is because I know it's not a priority for Ken (years of observational evidence). So why waste my breath? All I see all the time in the forum is huge amounts of people saying how the database is useless, that IMDB is better, that they don't use the program the way it's designed to be used...and if I was Ken reading all that, I would think "why should I bother with you then". If we, as the users, can't even follow a few rules then maybe we don't deserve this program or any support supposedly promised by its creators. Just my opinion. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | You misunderstand yet again. I don't see anyone defending, I just see users like yourself wasting your own and everyone else's time with your carping about something that isn't liekly to change, at least not in the way YOU want it to. Stop the whining and take some initiative on your own or simply be quiet because you are not going to achieve what you want, I would suspect that it is totally counter-productive and may in fact serve to drive ken further out.
Ken's a big boy and can take the abuse, but at the same time Alien how would you feel if there was some mosquito cvonstantly annoying you, eventually you would go inside to get away from the bugger. That is where i put you, simply an annoying mosquito, with very little positive to say but a lot constant complaining about this, that or something else. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | People are entitled to their opinion about IMDb and Profiler's usefulness, Alien. Everytime I see one of those comment I am reminded ayt justy how little they understand the purpose behind both databases. Did you know that even YOU can track 10,000 titles at IMDb for FREE. Go for it, buddy and welcome. I have found IMDb to be questionable at the best, when you have users that have included themselves in a cast list with a "legitimate" role and calling themselves (uncredited) you need little more. There is documentation that is accessible at IMDb, and not really much of anything, I don't trust them on their own because I know just how inaccurate they are, they are not good enough as a sole source of data. But they are godd enough for you apparently...so go use them for Free, maybe that FREE will get you the magic support you require. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!! | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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