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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,337 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting KinoNiki: Quote:
SInce the disc ID is just about the only unique and unquestionable evidence we have of a difference (be it minor or major) it's very unfortunate if they are allowed to be mixed up in the same profiles. It's okay for UPC profiles because they are of course tracking the original UPC release first and foremost but still allow for re-releeases to be tracked in the disc ID field, but when using the disc ID as the sole identifier there should never be any doubt about which disc we are actually trying to capture. If I download a profile with one disc ID as the identifier and another in the disc ID field, I can't be sure of what I'm looking at. So in my opinion it's always better to create a new profile. This one, very well said.  |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 762 |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Seeing as you singled me out, Pete, I will point out that I didn't say you must do anything. I just stated my point of view and what I take Ken's statement to mean.
As Katatonia states, if you put the disc into your drive it will be identified correctly. If Profiler doesn't find that disc then there isn't a profile for it; and the rules state that you then need to create a new profile.
However, if you (incorrectly, in my opinion) download the child profiles as input to the boxset by another user, you may end up with the wrong profile.
I've been using Profiler since the beginning and I've always checked my personal disc against the existing profiles in boxsets. If they're different, I create a new one. I then treat my new disc level as a re-release and do not submit a change to the parent profile boxset contents.
I personally don't feel there's any confusion. If you want to take that as you being told what to do, that's up to you. I'm simply pointing out what the contribution rules tell us what to do. How you interpret them is another matter. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
If that was a case why would he put...
Quoting Ken Cole:
"so I don't see a good reason to disallow this for Disc-ID based profiles."
Quoting Ken Cole:
"If that difference manifests in a way that's tracked in DVD Profiler, it should be entered as an independent profile under the new Disc ID."
As long as the discs are the same content wise we are allowed to just add the alternate disc ID... tell me how we are not by what Ken has stated please?
With those two parts of his statement in there I just don't see how you think I must create a new profile if the content is the same.
Explain that away. A. Tracked difference in Profiler = Disc ID. If Disc IDs are different the rules state to create a new profile. I personally think, that if Ken went back to his statement he would see that it contradicts itself. On the one hand, he has stated it's allowed to add the new disc ID to the profile. But, on the other, he has stated that if there is a difference that is tracked in Profiler (eg. Disc ID profiles) then a new profile must be created. Now...if he was to clarify his statement so it read as this: "If that difference manifests in a way that's tracked in DVD Profiler - Other than the Disc ID itself - it should be entered as an independent profile under the new Disc ID." If he included that exception I would agree with you 100%. Also, as Katatonia has stated, technically Ken has allowed what you want to do. However, according to the rules, to do so would be incorrect. Which brings us full circle back to: Disc ID does not match profile? Create new profile. Simple. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Disc ID does not match profile? Create new profile.
Simple. These simple solutions are absolutely intolarable and must stop now.  | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | All I can say is that I see no contradiction in his statement what so ever... he said alternate disc ids are allowed... and exactly when to submit them and when not to. It looks very clear and simple to me. I see the exception is already there in his statement because he allowed us to add alternate disc id's to disc id based profiles it is obvious that the disc id is not going to match so it goes without saying. If I was in Ken's shoes I would have stated it the same exact way. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,272 |
| | Posted: | | | | I didn't think much of this, as I've never encountered it first hand before. But I'm starting to audit my collection and coincidentally found two already:
One was in the UK Blu-ray boxset Alien Anthology, the Aliens disc has a different Disc ID, and one in the US Blu-ray boxset America: The BBS Story, Easy Rider has a different Disc ID. I checked and both are not in the database yet.
I changed the UPC to match the new Disc ID but wasn't sure if I should contribute them, I guess I should and leave the change in UPC in the Parent set in my local only. | | | HDTV: 52" Toshiba Regza 52XV545U AVR: Onkyo TR-707
Speakers: Paradigm Monitor 7 v6, CC-190 & Atom Monitors Subwoofer: Definitive Technology ProSub 800
BD/DVD: Oppo BDP-93 (Region Free) HD PVR: Motorola DXC3400 500GB w/ 1TB Expander
BD/DVD/Game: 250GB PS3 Slim DVD/Game: 250GB XBox 360 Elite Special Edition (Black) Game: Wii
Remote: Logitech Harmony One w/ PS3 Adapter WHS: Acer H341 Windows Home Server |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DoubleDownAgain: Quote:
I changed the UPC to match the new Disc ID but wasn't sure if I should contribute them, I guess I should and leave the change in UPC in the Parent set in my local only. Yes, that's exactly what you should do. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
All I can say is that I see no contradiction in his statement what so ever... he said alternate disc ids are allowed... and exactly when to submit them and when not to. It looks very clear and simple to me. I see the exception is already there in his statement because he allowed us to add alternate disc id's to disc id based profiles it is obvious that the disc id is not going to match so it goes without saying. If I was in Ken's shoes I would have stated it the same exact way. I just don't understand why you can't just create a new profile. All you need to do is change the EAN to your Disc's ID. If all the other data is the same you can submit with very little work involved at all. That way you have the correct disc profile in your local database. That's what I don't understand. Why would you want a disc level profile in your database that does not have the correct Disc ID?  Surely, you can see that this is the same as having a film in your database with the wrong UPC?  | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | As I said before... why would I want to? The profile is already there and I get all updates from everyone using the same profile as everyone else. so...
1. I see no sense what so ever of having multiple profiles for the exact same info when there really is no need.
2. I don't lose the ability to get updates from all the contributors that has the original... usually more common profile.
3. As I said from the start of this thread that I originally read the rules that we are able to do this. Ken confirmed we are indeed allowed to do this.
So why would I add a new profile where I would probably be the only one or one of only very few people to have that profile to have to do all the updating and get little to no updates from the community? | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
So why would I add a new profile where I would probably be the only one or one of only very few people to have that profile to have to do all the updating and get little to no updates from the community? Erm, because you'd have the correct profile in your database? Am I not explaining very well, or did you miss the point I made? What you are doing is exactly the same as having a profile in your database with the wrong EAN/UPC. Would you change the EAN to match your own or would you just keep the wrong one so you can get other people's updates? So, once again, why would you want the wrong profile in your database? |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I get all updates from everyone using the same profile as everyone else. so...
2. I don't lose the ability to get updates from all the contributors that has the original... usually more common profile.
So why would I add a new profile where I would probably be the only one or one of only very few people to have that profile to have to do all the updating and get little to no updates from the community? Wow. I'm glad other's don't have this attitude. We'd never have anything in the database. Can't you think of the next person with your Disc ID, and do the work so they don't have to? I realise this is a user built database; and 'what's the point of doing all the work myself' is the general attitude around here - but, surely people can see that if we all thought this way the database would be rubbish? In this instance, there is the need for a new profile and creating it is the correct, and right thing to do for the database and the community. | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | That is something that seems very important to you. Which is all fine and good. But does the numbers in the profile matching (in the general info field [where the upc shows] and in the disc id field) matter to me in the least? Nope. I am sorry I just don't see where it matters. To be honest I always wondered why the UPC shows at all in the general info tab... I mean what purpose does it serve... what does it tell us about the film or disc that I would want it to always show?
You are making it feel like it is of the utmost importance that I not only understand where you are coming from... but I must also change my thinking and agree with you. Sorry... but I just don't agree... those things I mentioned is more important to me then a number in a field that really seems to serve no purpose... that I really see no reason for it being showed on the profile in the first place. | | | | Pete |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
That is something that seems very important to you. Which is all fine and good. But does the numbers in the profile matching (in the general info field [where the upc shows] and in the disc id field) matter to me in the least? Nope. I am sorry I just don't see where it matters. To be honest I always wondered why the UPC shows at all in the general info tab... I mean what purpose does it serve... what does it tell us about the film or disc that I would want it to always show?
You are making it feel like it is of the utmost importance that I not only understand where you are coming from... but I must also change my thinking and agree with you. Sorry... but I just don't agree... those things I mentioned is more important to me then a number in a field that really seems to serve no purpose... that I really see no reason for it being showed on the profile in the first place. Accuracy. Simple as that. If you're going to do something, then do it correctly. I'm sorry; but it's people like you that make me wonder why I bother to contribute to this stupid database at all. Selfish and inconsiderate and totally undeserving of the work I, and many others, put into this database. Well, I hope the next person that comes along does the same, and the next, and the next...until finally people like you do the work that is required to keep this database great. If I offended you with this statement - good. You deserve it for being so damned selfish. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,217 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Why would you want a disc level profile in your database that does not have the correct Disc ID? But it does show the correct Disc-ID, in the Discs-Section where it belongs. We use the Disc-ID as Profile-ID for profiles without UPC because it is pragmatic, not because this key serves any purpose for the end-user. Quote:
Can't you think of the next person with your Disc ID, and do the work so they don't have to? The other person has to do nothing but putting the disc in, then he will get the according profile. Quote:
If I offended you with this statement - good. You deserve it for being so damned selfish. ehm, you might want to climb of your high horse, just because Addicted2DVD doesn't want to fill up the database with unneeded copies of profiles. cya, Mithi | | | | Mithi's little XSLT tinkering - the power of XML --- DVD-Profiler Mini-Wiki |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
That is something that seems very important to you. Which is all fine and good. But does the numbers in the profile matching (in the general info field [where the upc shows] and in the disc id field) matter to me in the least? Nope. I am sorry I just don't see where it matters. To be honest I always wondered why the UPC shows at all in the general info tab... I mean what purpose does it serve... what does it tell us about the film or disc that I would want it to always show?
You are making it feel like it is of the utmost importance that I not only understand where you are coming from... but I must also change my thinking and agree with you. Sorry... but I just don't agree... those things I mentioned is more important to me then a number in a field that really seems to serve no purpose... that I really see no reason for it being showed on the profile in the first place.
Accuracy. Simple as that.
If you're going to do something, then do it correctly.
I'm sorry; but it's people like you that make me wonder why I bother to contribute to this stupid database at all. Selfish and inconsiderate and totally undeserving of the work I, and many others, put into this database.
Well, I hope the next person that comes along does the same, and the next, and the next...until finally people like you do the work that is required to keep this database great.
If I offended you with this statement - good. You deserve it for being so damned selfish. Now just because you don't agree with me you start calling me names! Calling me selfish and inconsiderate! And imply that I don't put any work into the database!  I put a hell of a lot of work into this database. Between covers and profiles I have up over 10,000 contributions here. Accepted Profile Contributions: 9132 Accepted Image Contributions: 1216 But because I disagree with you on one thing I am selfish... I am inconsiderate... and I don't put in any work into the database!  | | | | Pete |
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