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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Role Capitalization? |
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| Author |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree and suggested as much myself. Spelling is a different animal entirely. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
That would not be correct according to standard French capitalisation rules.
I made this same request earlier, with no joy, so will make it again here...can you please show me the French capitalization rule that deals with converting all uppercase words into mixed case? I don't think that you will find a rule how to convert upper case letters to lower case in any language. Usually you can only find the reverse, namely how to convert lower case to upper case. Here you can find what l’Académie française has to say about dropping accents on upper case characters. While they regret the existence of such a dropping, they acknowledge its existence. Therefore if it is valid to convert é to E, it must as well be valid to re-convert such an E to its original é. Therefore if we see an E and have to convert it to lower case it could be among other é or e. Now if the conversion to e results into incorrect spelling but the conversion to é results into correct spelling, the only allowed variant is é. As shown the rule about how to de-capitalise a text, is a corollary of the rule, how to capitalise a text. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
I don't think that you will find a rule how to convert upper case letters to lower case in any language. Usually you can only find the reverse, namely how to convert lower case to upper case.
Here you can find what l’Académie française has to say about dropping accents on upper case characters. While they regret the existence of such a dropping, they acknowledge its existence.
Therefore if it is valid to convert é to E, it must as well be valid to re-convert such an E to its original é.
Therefore if we see an E and have to convert it to lower case it could be among other é or e.
Now if the conversion to e results into incorrect spelling but the conversion to é results into correct spelling, the only allowed variant is é.
As shown the rule about how to de-capitalise a text, is a corollary of the rule, how to capitalise a text. But it is not a capitalization rule, which is what we are talking about here. In his last post, even Surfeur admits this...bolding by me: Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
I insist on the first sentence ""En français, « l’accent a pleine valeur orthographique »" which means that in french, not putting an accent in a word that contains one is a spelling mistake. As I said earlier, this is about spelling and grammar, not capitalization. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | So now you can interpret even this, Rho? Might it not be just as logical to wonder if they meant what you said, why did they justy not state it. In short I think you full of yourself, my friend. I don't believe that is the case at all and that is evuidenced in many places not the least of which is Windows itself which contains bot UPPER and LOWER case with diacrits.  Frankly, I will put my money on Microsoft before you or even sufeur, I suspect their level of expertise is beyond either of you, I know it's beyond me. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
I don't think that you will find a rule how to convert upper case letters to lower case in any language. You are right. There is no general rule that can be used as a guide. MERE is mère, AMELIE is Amélie, just because mére or mere, Amelie or Amèlie do not exist in French. But TETE could be tête or tété, and you have to read the sentence to decide : J'AI LA TETE SUR LES EPAULES (I have my head over my shoulders) > tête (head) LE BEBE A TETE SON LAIT (Baby has sucked his milk) > tété (sucked) | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
I don't think that you will find a rule how to convert upper case letters to lower case in any language.
You are right. There is no general rule that can be used as a guide. MERE is mère, AMELIE is Amélie, just because mére or mere, Amelie or Amèlie do not exist in French.
But TETE could be tête or tété, and you have to read the sentence to decide :
J'AI LA TETE SUR LES EPAULES (I have my head over my shoulders) > tête (head)
LE BEBE A TETE SON LAIT (Baby has sucked his milk) > tété (sucked) So it's no more than custom, at best. And Rule by surfeur. Out of your own words. I got news Yves you have just proven everything i have ever said, follow the Rules and the data and to paraphrase Ken's comment, keep the fictional data where it belongs in YOUR local. Congratulations on destroying your own case. It would be funny, if it weren't so sad with all the time that has been wasted trying to explain it to you over the years. At least we now know that all you have ever been trying to do is impose your will on the world, personal preferences belong only in your local. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
As I said earlier, this is about spelling and grammar, not capitalization. I can easily agree with that. But when rules say "For non-English titles, use capitalization rules common to the language of the title. “Tout va bien” is correctly capitalized. “Tout Va Bien” is not.", we can understand that correct spelling have also to be followed (in fact I never saw any rule asking to introduce spelling mistakes). | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yves:
Forum Moderator: Removed
You claim "I never saw any rule asking to introduce spelling mistakes", I knew it wouldn't be long in coming btu I'll help you
"Copy the overview from the back of the DVD case exactly as written" You do understand the meaning of EXACTLY...yes.
Forum Moderator: Removed
Man, the utter gall. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Forum Moderator |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
As I said earlier, this is about spelling and grammar, not capitalization.
I can easily agree with that. But when rules say "For non-English titles, use capitalization rules common to the language of the title. “Tout va bien” is correctly capitalized. “Tout Va Bien” is not.", we can understand that correct spelling have also to be followed (in fact I never saw any rule asking to introduce spelling mistakes). That makes sense to me. Assuming if you go by the rules (the common language of the title), it would be pretty damn ignorant not to keep spelling and grammar in consideration. (When going from capitalization to standard, I mean.) | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. | | | | Last edited: by Alien Redrum |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Prof. Kingsfield: Quote:
At least we now know that all you have ever been trying to do is impose your will on the world. Moderators, please... What is your definition of harassment of a user by another ? How many times have I been called by name and reproached to have "an agenda" during the past three days by the same user ??? | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
That makes sense to me. Assuming if you go by the rules (the common language of the title), it would be pretty damn ignorant not to keep spelling and grammar in consideration. I completely agree. I support the rule that says that spelling mistakes in overviews are to be kept in, but to ignore the language of the overview and actually introduce spelling mistakes into the data seems nonsensical to me. |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,850 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
As I said earlier, this is about spelling and grammar, not capitalization.
I can easily agree with that. But when rules say "For non-English titles, use capitalization rules common to the language of the title. “Tout va bien” is correctly capitalized. “Tout Va Bien” is not.", we can understand that correct spelling have also to be followed (in fact I never saw any rule asking to introduce spelling mistakes). I don't understand that from the Rules. I just understand that we are to enter what we see, with the provision that we convert from ALL CAPS to mixed case. By the way, since these accented characters are so vitally important in certain languages, why in the world would ALL CAPS words omit them so frequently? --------------- |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | As has been noted diacrits have nothing to with spelling. We have a Rule and it is there for a reason, Alien. I have no problem with the Cap issue with titles and as the exception in the Overview section is written, but that also deals with caps not diacrits. Why is it that I have no problem dealing with French data diacrits and all, yet surfeur has a problem with English. Am I THAT smart, I don' think so, but I do understand what the Rule means and I type what I see, I do not intentionally insert any sort of fictional data.
Thank you though, Yves, for finally being honest. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:
That makes sense to me. Assuming if you go by the rules (the common language of the title), it would be pretty damn ignorant not to keep spelling and grammar in consideration.
I completely agree. I support the rule that says that spelling mistakes in overviews are to be kept in, but to ignore the language of the overview and actually introduce spelling mistakes into the data seems nonsensical to me. *whew* I added "(When going from capitalization to standard, I mean.)" as you were replying, but you got what I meant regardless. I read it and knew it could very well not make sense.  | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting surfeur51: Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:
Quote:
At least we now know that all you have ever been trying to do is impose your will on the world.
Moderators, please... What is your definition of harassment of a user by another ? How many times have I been called by name and reproached to have "an agenda" during the past three days by the same user ??? You pointed the finger straight at yourself, Yves. I have not called you any name, you do have an agenda, that is a FACT. I have called you no names at all. So moderators, if you choose then be fair because i have been offended by his repetition for years, and his harassment | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
But it is not a capitalization rule, which is what we are talking about here. In his last post, even Surfeur admits this How could it not be part of the rules how to capitalise and de-capitalise text? But I have found something else. Unfortunately its only a quote from the printed dictionnaire d'orthographe published by Le Robert. Quote:
Il n'est pas d'usage de mettre les accents aux lettres capiles...Mais cela peut créer des équivoques...
Si un titre de journal annonce:
UN POLICIER TUE
tue ou tué?
Il faut dans ce cas accentuer les capitales. Again its only the rules for converting lower case to upper case. But what it essentially says, it's that you only have to put accents on capitals if it would produce any ambiguity. Therefore we can assume that the all caps text in non-abiguous. Again as a corollary we can conclude that the conversion from all caps to lower/mixed case has to result in only one unique correct spelling. Therefore the conversion from E to é is mandatory if it is the only non-ambiguous correct result. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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