Scott:

Put yourself in the shoes of a user who wants it all, if there is one, there is more, would YOU as such a user want to be FORCED to do all that work and everyone else who wants it as well, or would you prefer to be able to share it. Thta is what I mean by at that point the OOnline isaccessible and usable to ALL user not just the select few elitists who Ken allows to run the program. As long as those us like you and myself can select what we want or don't want then EVERYONE is served. Who knows I might not be intereseted in Gaffers, but I might be in key grips and you might be intereseted in Accountants for some reason. In short, providing the opportunity to have ALL the data hurts no ONE, but but choosing what is or is not important to a few, removes usefulness for others, even that is only ONE user. I don't want to exclude ANYONE, as I have said the only yardstick applied is what appears On SCREE, and for those who to translate that data into their particular language, I apologize I don't have an answer for you, I sympathize with your plight, but I have nothing with the credits on ANY film. It is only data and ....I don't think i need to repeat myself. Ihave a few Asian films that have credits in character sets that the Program can't handle....oh well. And I have NOT Contributed the data that I have been able to sort out.

Skip

Quoting CharlieM:

Quote:
The ultimate solution --

Limit predifined credits to only what can be directly defined as;

Director
Producer
  Executive Producer
Casting
Production Designer
Costume Designer
Composer
Writer (screenplay)
Editor
Cinematographer

The basis of the credits, that can be found primarily in the Opening Credits, or pre-closing credits (depending on the movie).  Everybody knows which credits these involve.

The rest as "categorized" open credits.  With the option of including within the local on a credit by credit basis.  This way, you will always have the minimum and the rest is up to you.

Don't ask me how this would work, but it is a solution.


Charlie

A solution, yes, Ultimate not unless all such data is Contributable, even Other and Custom Roles would be best.

Skip

Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
Put yourself in the shoes of a user who wants it all... would YOU as such a user want to be FORCED to do all that work... , or would you prefer to be able to share it.

The first thing you should ask is will we be decreasing DVDP's value for some users by increasing its value for others.  If the answer is yes (and it seems that open credits will decrease the value of DVDP for at least some users), then we need to weigh that inconvenience against the potential increase in convenience of other users.  I don't think we will be able to decide that in this forum.

If it is decided that the changes you suggest will be detrimental to too many users, all is not lost.  DVDP users can now create profile files and exchange them with one another, spreading the load among that (very likely small) contingent that will want very detailed crew credits.  It may be somewhat less convenient than open credits for these few, but has the advantage of not disenfranchising others.

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Quoting scotthm:

Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
Put yourself in the shoes of a user who wants it all... would YOU as such a user want to be FORCED to do all that work... , or would you prefer to be able to share it.

[b]The first thing you should ask is will we be decreasing DVDP's value for some users by increasing its value for others.  If the answer is yes (and it seems that open credits will decrease the value of DVDP for at least some users), then we need to weigh that inconvenience against the potential increase in convenience of other users.  I don't think we will be able to decide that in this forum.
[/b]
If it is decided that the changes you suggest will be detrimental to too many users, all is not lost.  DVDP users can now create profile files and exchange them with one another, spreading the load among that (very likely small) contingent that will want very detailed crew credits.  It may be somewhat less convenient than open credits for these few, but has the advantage of not disenfranchising others.

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Agreed and that is an area I won't even go to, I don't have the information that i would want to see.

As to your secon, that makes me chuckle. I will agree about it being a relatively small contingent in the overall scheme of things, but let's speculate a little bit from the point of view of such a user. Let's see the klast time Ken said anything we had about 500,000 users at IVS, I presume that was a total figure. Let's guess that 10% of that is paid, 50,000, now let's guess that this small contingent is .5% that's 250 potential users, that's a lot of swapping.

Skip

Quoting scotthm:

Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
Put yourself in the shoes of a user who wants it all... would YOU as such a user want to be FORCED to do all that work... , or would you prefer to be able to share it.

The first thing you should ask is will we be decreasing DVDP's value for some users by increasing its value for others.  If the answer is yes (and it seems that open credits will decrease the value of DVDP for at least some users), then we need to weigh that inconvenience against the potential increase in convenience of other users.  I don't think we will be able to decide that in this forum.

If it is decided that the changes you suggest will be detrimental to too many users, all is not lost.  DVDP users can now create profile files and exchange them with one another, spreading the load among that (very likely small) contingent that will want very detailed crew credits.  It may be somewhat less convenient than open credits for these few, but has the advantage of not disenfranchising others.

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But on the same token, there is a growing contingent, that want more VFX credits, or another sect that wants more and proper sound credits.  While I doubt that there is any group of users that want all credits, how do you suggest we take care of growing the amount of credits, without a wholesale redux of the program every year?

In the end, open credits will only increase the value of the DB, especially if people can pick and choose what they want in there local, and still have the ability to reference the massive online. 

The one thing that needs to happen, the introduction of all charactersets into the DB (windows has the ability already, doesn't it).  The software needs to be able to accept it.

Charlie

Quoting CharlieM:

Quote:
Quoting scotthm:

Quote:
Quoting Prof. Kingsfield:

Quote:
Put yourself in the shoes of a user who wants it all... would YOU as such a user want to be FORCED to do all that work... , or would you prefer to be able to share it.

The first thing you should ask is will we be decreasing DVDP's value for some users by increasing its value for others.  If the answer is yes (and it seems that open credits will decrease the value of DVDP for at least some users), then we need to weigh that inconvenience against the potential increase in convenience of other users.  I don't think we will be able to decide that in this forum.

If it is decided that the changes you suggest will be detrimental to too many users, all is not lost.  DVDP users can now create profile files and exchange them with one another, spreading the load among that (very likely small) contingent that will want very detailed crew credits.  It may be somewhat less convenient than open credits for these few, but has the advantage of not disenfranchising others.

---------------

But on the same token, there is a growing contingent, that want more VFX credits, or another sect that wants more and proper sound credits.  While I doubt that there is any group of users that want all credits, how do you suggest we take care of growing the amount of credits, without a wholesale redux of the program every year?

In the end, open credits will only increase the value of the DB, especially if people can pick and choose what they want in there local, and still have the ability to reference the massive online. 

The one thing that needs to happen, the introduction of all charactersets into the DB (windows has the ability already, doesn't it).  The software needs to be able to accept it.

Charlie

Not to mention those of us that getting sick of shoehorning so much data into a given job that it loses all meaning.

Skip

Quoting CharlieM:

Quote:
In the end, open credits will only increase the value of the DB, especially if people can pick and choose what they want in there local, and still have the ability to reference the massive online.

I personally have no objection to open credits as long as we keep the existing broad categories to place them in.  I'm just pointing out that others have equally legitimate reasons for not wanting open credits.  The fact is, we can do pretty much what we want to now, locally.

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Quoting scotthm:

Quote:
Quoting CharlieM:

Quote:
In the end, open credits will only increase the value of the DB, especially if people can pick and choose what they want in there local, and still have the ability to reference the massive online.

I personally have no objection to open credits as long as we keep the existing broad categories to place them in.  I'm just pointing out that others have equally legitimate reasons for not wanting open credits.  The fact is, we can do pretty much what we want to now, locally.

Indeed.  If Ken can make the existing Custom Role field contributable, it no longer matters that we shoe horn credits as the Custom Role will give us the proper meaning of the credit.