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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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I just bought the US DVD release of the 1971 Belmondo movie The Burglers (043396-464933).

I'm not quite sure how to profile this one. Here is the problem:

The DVD contains both the 114 minute dubbed US version, entitled The Burglars, and the 126 minute international version, in French with English subtitles, entitled Le Casse.

My initial thought was that we always document the longer version, so that's what I did, and mentioned the US version in the Extra Features field.

BUT... since the cover title is The Burglars, and this is the title of the shorter version, is that the version that should be profiled (and the longer version mentioned in Extra Features).

Also, should the audio and subtitle info reflect both versions, or only the main profiled version?
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,685
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OK, now I'm confused!

This used to be the forum where everybody had an opinion, and was more or less ready to go to war in order to "protect the database".

Now after three days nobody has an opinion? 
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorateo357
Registered: December 27, 2009
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profile it with the US version and include the French as a bonus film.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMerrik
NON-STEPFORD PROFILER
Registered: September 30, 2008
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I would probably profile it with the US version and include the French version as a bonus film, as ateo357 said above. I've never run into the situation before, so not really 100% certain, but if the title of the DVD release is The Burglers and that's the shorter version, it seems like that would be the main release on the disc. To me anyway.

And yes, this used to be the forum where everyone and their dog had an opinion (and those opinions were 98% of the time always right and never could anyone come to any kind of agreement...    ) and I think that's actually the reason why there's less of that around these days. Honestly, for too many years there was just too much crap on the boards for most sane people to put up and it looks like the... divisive... nature of the boards have caused some to flee elsewhere.

Well, that, and the place has been around for years and years at this point, and people get bored and move on... 
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Well, there is nothing on the cover to suggest that there is a main version and a bonus film. And there is the question of the rating:
Quote:
For DVDs with more than one rating shown (e.g. a DVD which includes an R and Unrated version), use the highest applicable rating

Since both ratings are listed on the back cover, this means that this profile should be listed as NR, the listing for the French version. I have watched the French cut of the movie, and it contains some scenes with partial nudity in a strip club that almost certainly would have earned it a R rating in the US, so I assume that these scenes are part of what has been edited out of the US cut. It would seem a little odd to profile the US cut, but with the French cuts NR rating.

I have to admit that I felt fairly sure that I was on the right track with the longer version, but I wanted confirmation. Now I am a bit confused.

Is it the fact that the longer cut has the original title in the credits that "disqualifies" it as the main feature? Or is it the fact that it's subtitled? Or a combination of both?

I can understand that some may feel that the US version would be the main film in a US DVD release, but I can't find anything in the rules that actually supports that.

(Trivia fact: The French credits lists Belmondo first, the US credits lists Sharif first)
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
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Rule: Use the title from the front cover
-> Catch the Burglers !

Rule:  Original title :  For titles released outside their country of origin, use the original release title.
-> Le Casse

Rule: Running Time. For branching titles, or those with multiple versions (e.g. Theatrical and Director's Cut) on the same disc, use the longest running time.
Here, both versions are indicated on Front cover, so International version cannot be considered as Easter Egg. So it has to be used.
Though I found nothing explicit in rules for other characteristics, I would do the same for the other movie data, including credits.
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 Last edited: by surfeur51
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,685
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Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on how to interpret the "title from the front cover" rule. Other than that, I agree with you, Yves!
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
This used to be the forum where everybody had an opinion, and was more or less ready to go to war in order to "protect the database".

I guess the fact that the rules don't explicitly cover this situation - something like it, yes, but not exactly this - causes the lack of replies. Easy questions get loads of replies, difficult ones don't. I, too, can only say how I'd personally handle it. Well, personally, I'd profile the longest version, and would make a child profile for the shorter version - I'd deal with that as if it were a "Bonus Feature Film". But as it's a grey area, it's possible that I wouldn't submit that child profile, but would just keep it local.

Quote:
Also, should the audio and subtitle info reflect both versions, or only the main profiled version?

Mu audio and subtitle sections always reflect the version of the film I'm profiling, not those of additional versions/cuts. Again, in cases where I really want to track those, I would use a child profile for that version/cut.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
there is the question of the rating:
Quote:
For DVDs with more than one rating shown (e.g. a DVD which includes an R and Unrated version), use the highest applicable rating

Since both ratings are listed on the back cover, this means that this profile should be listed as NR, the listing for the French version. I have watched the French cut of the movie, and it contains some scenes with partial nudity in a strip club that almost certainly would have earned it a R rating in the US, so I assume that these scenes are part of what has been edited out of the US cut. It would seem a little odd to profile the US cut, but with the French cuts NR rating.

NR is no rating at all, and should not be confused with "unrated".  If one version is rated and the other is "NR" then you should use the rating.  If one version is rated and the other is "unrated" then you should use "unrated".
---------------
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,685
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Quote:
The term "Bonus Feature Film" is used to define any feature film that is included as part of the bonus material for a single release.

None of the versions are presented as a "bonus feature", so I don't see how a child profile would be allowed by the rules.
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
NR is no rating at all, and should not be confused with "unrated".  If one version is rated and the other is "NR" then you should use the rating.  If one version is rated and the other is "unrated" then you should use "unrated".

You're right, my bad. Still it would seem wrong to profile a version with nudity as PG just because there is another version that actually is PG. But I guess that's what the rules say...
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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As there is no rule to cover this exact situation, I would profile the release based on the title on the front cover.

If this were the Director's Cut that also included the theatrical cut, we would profile the Director's Cut.  Why would this be any different? 
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Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
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We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,685
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
If this were the Director's Cut that also included the theatrical cut, we would profile the Director's Cut.

Even if the theatrical cut was actually longer? I don't see any support for that in the rules.

And anyway "The Burglars" is just the US title of the film. It doesn't in itself indicate a specific version, IMHO, since the text at the bottom says "Includes both domestic and international version of the film".
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
If this were the Director's Cut that also included the theatrical cut, we would profile the Director's Cut.

Even if the theatrical cut was actually longer? I don't see any support for that in the rules.

The only place the rules mention longer versions is for running time.  Nowhere does it say that we are to profile the longest version.  Unless something has changed, we have always profiled the release as it is sold.
Quote:
And anyway "The Burglars" is just the US title of the film. It doesn't in itself indicate a specific version, IMHO, since the text at the bottom says "Includes both domestic and international version of the film".

No, "The Burglars" is the title of this release.  If there is a version of the film with that title included, that is the version that should be profiled.

"Le Casse" is not on the front cover so I don't understand why that is the version that would be profiled.  JMHO.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Sweden Posts: 4,685
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The menu doesn't make any such distinction. It's two versions of the same film. The longer one just happens to have a French credit sequence.
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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I don't own this so I am just guessing...and this, by the way, is why I don't normally get involved in these types of discussions.

While the menu doesn't make a distinction, the front cover of the case does.  I am guessing that the version with English Audio has a title card that says 'The Burglars' and the version with French Audio has a title card that says 'Le Casse'.

I would profile the version with a title card that matches the title on the front of the case...which is where we are supposed to get the title from.  Why would you do it any other way? 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
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