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Created By - A Writing Credit?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
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Registered: July 22, 2007
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I tried searching, but I got a server timeout error (both tries).

I don't normally look at the cast/crew credits, but did.  I noticed that a Created By credit was under the Writing category.  Huh?  Just because you've created something doesn't mean that you've written word one for the show.

Why isn't Created By a separate category. like Director, Producer, etc?  It certainly is separate on the screen.
Mr Video Productions
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
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Because coming up with the concept is part of the writing process.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
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Because coming up with the concept is part of the writing process.


Putting together a pitch, even though it has to be written, is not a writing credit.  Just because you pitch it, doesn't mean that you will write a single episode.  You can create the bible for the show.  Still doesn't get you writing credit.

The point is that the "Created By" credit is a separate and distinct credit from a writing credit.  They are separate items in the screen credits and should be treated as such in DVDP, i.e., a separate category in the crew section.

What about when an episode is not written by the creator?  The creator still gets a "Created By" card on the screen and the actual writer, or writers, gets a separate "Written By" card on the screen.

They need to be treated separately because they are separate credits.
Mr Video Productions
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorThe Movieman
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Registered: March 18, 2007
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No need to make things more complicated than they are. While I see what you're saying, there are (IMO) more important things to focus on (like shoring up the rules as a whole).
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
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Quoting TheMovieman:
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No need to make things more complicated than they are. While I see what you're saying, there are (IMO) more important things to focus on (like shoring up the rules as a whole).


It will be more difficult to fix it in the future, in that, there will be more and more entries in the database with "incorrect" information.  The sooner that it is fixed, the sooner new entries can use the correct category.  Then slowly, profiles for existing entries can get fixed.

Fixing rules, while definitely important, is outside of DVDP programming changes.

I believe this should get some serious thought.
Mr Video Productions
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
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We give original media a writing credit even though they aren't writing for the show or movie. Created by is pretty close to the same thing. For that matter, "story by" credits are governed by the WGA even though they don't necessarily involve writing specifically for the show or movie. The writing credits aren't just for the people who wrote the shooting script, but also people who may have come up with a scenario, etc. You are trying to make the writing category absurdly narrow.
 Last edited: by Ace_of_Sevens
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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"Created by" is a writer's credit. The Writers Guild of America determines this using the following criteria (in part, see link for more details):

Quote:
Determining Separated Rights on a Television Series
1. "Created by" Credit Determination.

The WGA-determined "Created by" credit also determines the writer's eligibility for separated rights in a series. The "Created by" credit on a series is not determined until there is a series order. There are two ways a writer becomes eligible to seek "Created by" credit on an original series:

a. a writer writes a format for the series; or

b. a writer receives "Story by" or "Written by" credit on the pilot episode of the series.

To determine the "Created by" credit on an original episodic series, there must first be a final determination of credits on the pilot episode of the series.

If no format has been written for the series, the "Created by" credit will automatically go to the writer(s) who received the "Story by" or "Written by" credit on the pilot. If a format has been written, a Separation of Rights arbitration may be required following the final credit determination on the pilot.

A Separation of Rights arbitration is triggered by a timely protest by an eligible writer of the proposed "Created by" credit on the Notice of Tentative Writing Credits.18

Generally, a Separation of Rights arbitration is conducted in the same manner as all credit arbitrations. Three independent arbiters19 are asked to review and compare the relevant literary material, analyzing the following elements to determine if the second writer(s) have made significant changes from the original material in one or more of the following:

- The framework in which the central running characters will operate and which will be repeated in each episode;

- the setting;

- the theme or point of view;

- the premise or general story line;

- the central running characters;

- the interplay among the characters; and

- the flavor, style or attitude.

A significant change is defined as "a change or additional element that contributes 'significantly' to the series' distinctiveness or viability." The arbiters may award "Created by" credit to the format writer, the pilot writer, or both. The arbiters also determine the percentages in which the writers will share in the Separated Rights. The complete rules for the determination of the "Created by" credit are set forth in the Separation of Rights Manual.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
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Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
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You are trying to make the writing category absurdly narrow.


No, I'm after credits in DVDP being separated as seen in the on-screen credits.  DVDP strives to be as accurate as possible, yet throws the separate on-screen card for "Created By" into the "Written By" on-screen card, which it is distinctly not.

If I search a database for all known show creators, I expect it to be a result of a search within a "Created By" category in the database, not under the "Written By" category.
Mr Video Productions
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
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Quoting m.cellophane:
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"Created by" is a writer's credit. The Writers Guild of America determines this using the following criteria (in part, see link for more details):


Thanks for the very informative posting.  I feel that it further supports a separate "Created By" category in the database, as it is a very big deal with the WGA.  Which, I suspect, is the reason why there is a separate card in the credits for "Created By".
Mr Video Productions
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
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Art directors get their own card in the credits as well, separate from set designers, costumers and such. Does this mean they should be moved out the art department? The WGA does treat "created by" as distinct from other writing credits, but that doesn't mean it's not a writing credit at all. We recognize that creating is different than screenwriting by giving it a different entry. This is akin to saying that because squirrels are different than mice (they have fluffy tails, you know), we shouldn't consider then mammals and we should give them their own squirrel phylum.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorm.cellophane
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Quoting MrVideo:
Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
"Created by" is a writer's credit. The Writers Guild of America determines this using the following criteria (in part, see link for more details):


Thanks for the very informative posting.  I feel that it further supports a separate "Created By" category in the database, as it is a very big deal with the WGA.  Which, I suspect, is the reason why there is a separate card in the credits for "Created By".

It's a different writing credit, but it's still a writing credit. The groupings in DVD Profiler are very general. There are many credits within the DVD Profiler groupings that are credited on separate screens or in different places of a credit scroll.
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
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Oh good grief, it is worse than I expected.

Consider me stupid, naive, whatever, but I was actually expecting the crew listing to be verbatim as to what is in the on-screen credits.  And in order as to how they appear on screen (AFAIK, there is a pecking order as to how the crew credits are listed), though the order isn't as important as accurate listings.

I wasn't expecting broad categories with lumped credits and worse yet, incorrect credits.

I brought up DVDP and looked at a TV series that I have.  In this particular case, the first season of Gossip Girl, as I know it is shot using video, not film.  What caught my eyes on some of the shows that I looked at, indicated that it was "Film Editer"  TV shows haven't been film edited in decades, having been non-linear edited via video.  An exception, that I know of (sort-of) is Quantum Leap,  That was non-linear electronically edited, but the EDL was used to actually cut the negatives and film special effects done, as they wanted 24fps film masters to be used for foreign sales conversion to PAL, not NTSC edited masters for conversion to PAL.

The point is that the correct credit is "Edited by", not "Film Editor" as stated in the actual credits and because the show is edited electronically, no film involved.  Hell, does anyone even edit real movie film anymore?  It is all done in computer.

The point is that I read postings/rules that one can't use sources like IMDB (not even for birthdays?), yet the crew credit listings are wrong.  Hell, even IDMB has "Series Film Editing by" for this series.  Film is nowhere to be found in the actual credits.  Correct me if I am wrong, but "Film" is also missing from actual movie credits.  It is "Editor," "Edited by" and minor variations thereof, all without "Film,"

Where is the line drawn as to what is included for crew credits?  Most movies these days, have a zillion people listed in the credits, yet movies like Avatar have an extremely small listing of the crew.

So, it comes down to this.  Is DVDP supposed to contain an accurate representation of the listed credits or not, or am I expecting way too much?
Mr Video Productions
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributortweeter
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Quoting MrVideo:
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Is DVDP supposed to contain an accurate representation of the listed credits or not, or am I expecting way too much?

Not.

The point is to capture, accurately, names and duties (via Custom Roles) of the crew credited.  The goal is not to recreate the style and order of the on screen credits.

The on-line database provides a baseline all can use.  You can customize your local database to your hearts content, including changing "Film Editor" to "Edited by" or whatever you else you desire.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMrVideo
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Quoting tweeter:
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The point is to capture, accurately, names and duties (via Custom Roles) of the crew credited.


Shouldn't the custom roles closely resemble the on-screen duty?  "Film Editor" just doesn't exist.  Maybe it did ages and ages ago, but not now.  Just plain "Editor" more closely matches the duty.  That would work for all.

Quote:
The goal is not to recreate the style and order of the on screen credits.


I did say that order wasn't as important.

Quote:
You can customize your local database to your hearts content, including changing "Film Editor" to "Edited by" or whatever you else you desire.


Wouldn't that mean the profile couldn't be contributed?
Mr Video Productions
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Quoting MrVideo:
Quote:
Shouldn't the custom roles closely resemble the on-screen duty?  "Film Editor" just doesn't exist.  Maybe it did ages and ages ago, but not now.  Just plain "Editor" more closely matches the duty.  That would work for all.

Custom Roles are local only.  Default roles are used in the common on-line database.  And Film Editor is still in use.  (And if it were just called Editor someone would confuse it with editors not related to photography.)
Quote:
Wouldn't that mean the profile couldn't be contributed?

Not at all.  Custom Roles stay local, they are stripped from the data contributed.  And if you accept updated profiles when they change your Custom Roles are not touched.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
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Regardless of whether your expectations were realistic, if the screen says "created by" and DVD Profiler says "created by," isn't that a verbatim representation of what's on screen? The categories are useful groupings of roles that put related kinds of roles together for clarity. IMDB does the same thing, though their format is different.
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