Hello,

In the movie Dunkirk (5055201802965)we find this credit


Now how to credit this correctly?
Per rules we can't use Themselves in the credited as field. This means we'd have Flanagan and Allen as 'actor' and Themselves as role. However we know Flanagan is
Bud Flanagan and Allen is
Chesney Allen both were already in the profile.

This means, in my opinion, we now have two people, with a role of themselves, using the new divider rules i used a Themselves group divider, and put Bud Flanagan and Chesney Allen under it as cast


Note the CLT hasn't got any result for Flanagan and Allen as combined credit. Now i could use credited as for Flanagan and Allen. I'm not sure. However during a very friendly PM discussion the way i credited them was, understandably, questioned so i'm asking here.

My question is would this be correct, maybe with the use of credited as, or does anyone has another option?

Paul

These ones are always tricky if you ask me. We want to capture the data exactly as it appears on screen, but in my opinion, a credit of "Flanagan and Allen" is almost completely useless, especially if they never appear that way in any other credits.

The way I would personally do it, would be to use a group divider, as you have illustrated, of Themselves.

Then have it credited as:

Bud Flanagan [Flanagan]
Chesney Allen [Allen]

CLT results would also support this as Bud Flanagan and Chesney Allen are the common names according to those results.

I can see a legitimate arguement to have the credit read:

Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen]
Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen]

as well. I personally would not enter it this way however. Although, I probably wouldn't tackle this and submit it to the online, I'd keep it local however I chose to do it.

IF I were submitting to the online with it, I'd do it:

Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen]
Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen]

Quote:
The way I would personally do it, would be to use a group divider, as you have illustrated, of Themselves.

Then have it credited as:

Bud Flanagan [Flanagan]
Chesney Allen [Allen]

That's also how I would do it.

To me the "Flanagan and Allen" is a group credit. I see two separate people are playing themselves.

If we do:

Quote:
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen]
Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen]

then to me it looks like Bud Flanagan is credited both as Flanagan and Allen and the same thing for Chesney Allen. I don't know how one person could be two people?

To me the individual credit is that Bud Flanagan is credited as Flanagan and Chesney Allen is credited simply as Allen.

Quoting CubbyUps:

Quote:

Quote:
The way I would personally do it, would be to use a group divider, as you have illustrated, of Themselves.

Then have it credited as:

Bud Flanagan [Flanagan]
Chesney Allen [Allen]

That's also how I would do it.

To me the "Flanagan and Allen" is a group credit. I see two separate people are playing themselves.

If we do:

Quote:
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen]
Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen]

then to me it looks like Bud Flanagan is credited both as Flanagan and Allen and the same thing for Chesney Allen. I don't know how one person could be two people?

To me the individual credit is that Bud Flanagan is credited as Flanagan and Chesney Allen is credited simply as Allen.

This would also be an option. I recall for Crank though, we also have (maybe incorrectly) Neveldine/Taylor as credit for Mark Neveldine and Brain Taylor. Or what about the Roderick Jaynes credit for both Ethan and Joel Coen? Wouldn't Flanagan and Allen be closer to the actual credits?

Paul

Quoting VirusPil:

Quote:
Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen]
Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen]

But imho without a group divider.

And than just have Themselves twice? Maybe you are right, when each member has a credit we don't add a divider even when the roles are all the same. You could make a case saying each the have a credit, even though it's shared.

Paul

Quoting T!M:

Quote:
For those that are tempted to put "Flanagan and Allen" in the credited as field - why? If the credit had been for "Bud Flanagan and Chesney Allen", would you put that in the "credited as" field for both, too? Or would you do the same for any "Written by XX and YY" credit? If not: where's the difference? At which point do you feel two names joined by the word "and" stops becoming two names and suddenly becomes eligable for retaining the entire thing in the "credited as" field?

"Flanagan and Allen" were credited jointly for a reason and that should be reflected in the credits.  I've never heard of them but the credit form makes me think they were professionally paired (think "Abbott and Costello") and Googling supports that.

Since the credits used their proessional stage name i'd use that in the credits as well:

    Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen]
    Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen]

There is no perfect answer but this best reflects the credit's intent and the desire to link to the real names.

Quoting tweeter:

Quote:
"Flanagan and Allen" were credited jointly for a reason and that should be reflected in the credits.  I've never heard of them but the credit form makes me think they were professionally paired (think "Abbott and Costello") and Googling supports that.

Since the credits used their proessional stage name i'd use that in the credits as well:

    Bud Flanagan [Flanagan and Allen]
    Chesney Allen [Flanagan and Allen]

There is no perfect answer but this best reflects the credit's intent and the desire to link to the real names.

I have to agree here. The "Abbott and Costello" analogy is spot-on.

Quoting CalebAndCo:

Quote:
A group divider for Themselves doesn't make much sense to me.  How about:

Flanagan and Allen (Divider)
    Bud Flanagan [Flanagan] as Himself
    Chesney Allen [Allen] as Himself

+1