Philipp Baron von Boeselager
Doe anyone know is "Baron" a honorific or just part of his name?

Quoting kahless:

Quote:
Baron is part of the name. In earlier times, baron was a title of nobility

Due to the fact that those titles are no more valid (at least in Germany), it is part of the last name!

What he said.

Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:

Quote:
The correct way to enter the 3 countesses (? is this plural correct?) would be:

Maria //Gräfin von Stauffenberg [Countess Maria von Stauffenberg]

not quite sure about the correct DVDProfiler way though, might as well be:

Maria //Countess von Stauffenberg [Countess Maria von Stauffenberg]

but that looks awful to me, because of the mixture of languages.

Shouldn't it, for profiler purposes, be Maria //von Stauffenberg [Countess Maria von Stauffenberg]?

Paul

Quoting paulb_99:

Quote:
Quoting Silence_of_Lambs:

Quote:
The correct way to enter the 3 countesses (? is this plural correct?) would be:

Maria //Gräfin von Stauffenberg [Countess Maria von Stauffenberg]

not quite sure about the correct DVDProfiler way though, might as well be:

Maria //Countess von Stauffenberg [Countess Maria von Stauffenberg]

but that looks awful to me, because of the mixture of languages.

Shouldn't it, for profiler purposes, be Maria //von Stauffenberg [Countess Maria von Stauffenberg]?

Paul

You are correct of course,
sorry, I was stuck up in German naming conventions and semi-automatically applied the "real name".

According to the German Wikipedia, in the course of the imperial constitution of 1919 during the Weimar Republic all general titles of nobility (i.e. titles that all family members retain and inherit; not emperor or king e.g.) where merged into the surname. See the two bolded examples:

Quote:

[...] Im republikanischen Deutschen Reich wurden mit Inkrafttreten der Weimarer Reichsverfassung von 1919 (Artikel 109) keine Adelstitel mehr verliehen; die bisherigen wurden zu (besonderen) Teilen des Namens. [...]

[...] Die von Familie zu Familie unterschiedlichen allgemeinen Titel, die die übrigen Familienmitglieder trugen, wurden in der Folge nicht mehr als Titel geführt, sondern als Teil des neuen Familiennamens definiert. Dies bedeutet, dass zum Beispiel die Titel Prinz oder Graf, die bisher allen Familienmitgliedern zustanden, als Namensbestandteile erhalten blieben, die Titel König, Großherzog usw., die nur den regierenden Personen (Herrschertitel) oder Familienoberhäuptern zustanden, entfielen ganz. Dies mündete in sehr unterschiedlichen Familiennamen. So tragen etwa die Nachkommen des ehemals königlichen Hauses Württemberg den Familiennamen „Herzog von Württemberg“ oder die Nachkommen des ehemaligen kurfürstlichen Hauses Hessen den Familiennamen „Prinz und Landgraf von Hessen“. Da der Titel Fürst nur in Ausnahmefällen ein Herrschertitel war, wird er aus Gründen der Traditionspflege heute noch vielfach geführt, obwohl er in der Regel kein Namensbestandteil mehr ist. [...]

[...] Lediglich die von den Familien gewählten ehemaligen allgemeinen Adelstitel sind heute Teil des bürgerlich-rechtlichen Namens. [...]

In consequence (and since countess and baron are just translations), I'd parse him
Philipp//Baron von Boeselager (real name: Philipp//Freiherr von Boeselager)


The countesses I'd parse like Maria//von Stauffenberg [Countess Maria von Stauffenberg]. Since the honorifics rule doesn't apply here, it's not 100% correct in my book. On the other hand, one could argue that it looks like the countesses chose to not include the title in their surnames... I don't know

Ok, I would agree with this. In my break I just did the search vor "Baron" so I did not get the quoted sites in my fast search.

See also the site of the Adelsverband.

Quote:
Ein Adelstitel ist kein Titel im Sinne eines akademischen Grades, wie z.B. dem Dr.-Titel, einer Amts- oder Dienstbezeichnung, Titeln oder Würden des öffentlichen Rechts usw.

So in Germany no nobilities are honorific.

So If we parse Baron as part of the name, Graf/Gräfin is also.
It is just a mere chance, that it was not written Baron Philipp von Boeselager or Maria Gräfin(Countess) von Stauffenberg.

But I think it isn't wrong to just write Philipp von Boeselager, it is not law to speak or write to him Baron ...

In Germany you can buy your nobility if you want. How about being Graf/Count von Leuchtenberg. Just 50€.

The Question is, should we treat it really as normal name? How many users won't ask and write something "wrong" because they see Baron and think it is a honorific? Which is the next country we taking to learn the name right?

Wouldn't we get less variants? Instead of having perhaps three different actor entries, just one?
Philipp//Baron von Boeselager
Philipp//von Boeselager
Baron Philipp//von Boeselager

If it is the son of Kurt Freiherr von Plettenberg, I would go for Karl Wilhelm//Freiherr von Plettenberg. (Born in 19xx)
In the German wikipedia he is called Karl-Wilhelm, so it would be a double name that belong into one field.

If it is Karl Wilhelm Freiherr von Plettenberg-Schwarzenberg-Heeren (* 1765; † 1850), it could also be Karl/Wilhelm/Freiherr von Plettenberg.

As I explained, I would still put the "honorific" just in the credited as. But if we add it as part of the name I would tend to put it in the last field. (if the written credit is Karl Wilhelm Freiherr von Plettenberg)

Edit: "von" is, as I know, always not capitalized at beginning in names.

I don't see why we should have special rules for Germany in this case.

If we were talking about Chevalier Luc de Besson (just an imaginary example), the answer would be quite easy:
Luc // de Besson [Chevalier Luc de Besson]

No need to make it more complicated than needed for people from other localities (which BTW are by far in the majority).